Letting CNA pass your meds, bad idea? - page 15
I fill the cups and check for all interactions and whatnot, but anyone have any negative experiences or can think of any possible neg exp with this? Thanks... Read More
Nov 7, '06Quote from MVH119What could go amiss? Here are just a few suggestions:Well our legal code of conduct allows the delegation of some tasks "as long as the practioner is satisied as to the competence of the delagatee".
I am so satisfied, I do not suggest that the HCA dispenses and checks the drug, that is my job. Once I have done that I see no problem with the HCA giving the drug to the patient. What can go amiss?
1. the medication could be given to the wrong pt and you would never know. Maybe even someone who is allergic to said medication.
2. the medication might not be given AT ALL if your designee gets distracted.
Nov 8, '06Yet again, the issue isn't about whether or not a nurse thinks CNAs are stupid. If it falls outside their training and scope of practice, CNAs should not be doing it.
Student nurses are training to be nurses and their CI is responsible for them, CNAs are not in training and the NURSE is responsible.
Nov 8, '06Quote from majkenWhat practice do you think that they have had? I agree with some of the other posters...if the CNA/CMA are totally held liable, accountable and responsible for any possible error, then, fine, but, as another poster mentioned, the nurse working at Burger King was not present when this occured, yet, she lost all that she worked really hard for, and that is plain WRONG.I think CNA can give oral meds but not injection meds. Well caregiver can give oral meds also so why CNA cannot?
They have all the practice which I think they can give oral meds.. CNA are not stupid to give the meds to the wrong patient. As if you're saying that student nurses cannot give oral meds to the patient because they don't have their license even their CI with them..
Oh well just my opinion. Thanks!
I always felt that the CNA should bear more responsibility with their certification than they actually are. If a CNA lifts a patient the wrong way, and breaks a limb, they are counseled, the nurse may have a real problem. I think that the CNA should have to face their 'board of CNA" (if there is any) the same way that a nurse should have to. This way, they may think twice about glossing over any mistakes in care. I was a certified AMAP, and I made mistakes during that time (over 20 years ago), and, I was not responsible enough to care what happened, either...because I wasn't licensed. Now, I see that this is a mistake. Unless the CNA, whether they are trained to pour meds or not is to take the full brunt of the error, then, they really shouldn't.
Nov 11, '06your putting your license on the line I'm a student nurse and there in no way, after all my hardwork, I'm going to throw it away by letting someone else give the meds I'm responsible for.
Nov 11, '06:trout:Quote from nurse gallaheryour putting your license on the line I'm a student nurse and there in no way, after all my hardwork, I'm going to throw it away by letting someone else give the meds I'm responsible for.
Nov 11, '06Quote from HeartsOpenWideWould you give an injection that some one else drew up....
yes i have - when i have helped pass meds for another wing but i am always ther watching them draw it up and only wth someone i KNOW i trust., its quite easy to double check being right there to look at the mar and look at the injection to be sure its right.
Nov 11, '06I would never let and Aide give medications for me. When I was an aide I hated it when nurses tried to make me give meds.:angryfire
Nov 11, '06Quote from walla189wow responses making me feel a wee bit incompent, just ta let ya know my thoughts I have decided to share my very rough draft, (just wrote between post) of my essay, tell me what ya think,
The decision to delegate the task of passing meds to any unlicensed personal is in most cases an irresponsible action. The first and foremost problem is the liability issues of the patients' meds, as a nurse we are held accountable for any negative events from that medication regardless of our involvement. Examples of this are the obvious risk of theft whether it be the CTA directly or someone else that may have taken the meds off the patients table. Obvious harm could come to the person taking this medication whether it be a allergic reaction, complication due to health condition, or interaction with other drugs the individual may have also taken. There is also the patient to be considered, the meds taken by another may have been vital to the patients treatment causing severe repressions.
The training a CTA receives is not at the level to make decisions to keep the medications safe. And as professionals we are given the responsibility to protect the patent and safeguard others from controlled substance, it is in fact our complete fault if another does harm with these substances.
The patient may be curious about the side effects or maybe even the reason they are taking their prescribed drugs, the CTA's level of knowledge and experience with patients would not be able to at the very least answer these questions. Even more so the patient to health provider trust would be greatly dimished, patients correctly expect professional staff in professional situations, any less is..../
leaving them at a table with the resident in many places has been made so its aginst policy - even though the resident may be alerert and oriented doesnt mean they would take it on time or that some dementia resident might come run by the table grab em and eat em.........
Nov 12, '06Quote from hikernurseI wouldn't even let a certified med tech pass my meds. Not worth my license. If the tech messes up, then I'm on the line, too. I'd rather spend the extra time it takes to pass my own.
Anyone can be taught to give meds in a real short course--unfortunately, there's a lot more to passing meds than knowing how to put them in a cup.
Your essay topic is a pretty good one :-).
unfortuantley one may not have a choice but to have your license on the line for med techs - even if you arent giving them YOUR meds to pass - if the facility ( which ours is getting into ) hires them they run under whoever is in charge so that means when i am in charge my license is at risk because they choose to use this type of employee - personally - it is only a money saver on thier side and a headache on our side- though they may get to do meds- that is ALL they can do leaving the rest of the nurses responsible for getting treatments and dressings and tube feedings and traches etc - done. making the nurses responsibility even higher. sigh - nothing againts med techs - they have thier place - like maybe in assissted living and such but i am finding in LTC it just isnt a good thing.
Nov 12, '06Quote from rgroyer1RNBSNOh this is a wonderrrrfull Idea(not), hell why dont we go ahead and let them (CNA's) go ahead and start are IV's and give are IM's to. Hell why dont we even have them intubate and defibrillate pts. to. Bad ideas I wouldnt risk my license this way.
good luck as its coming you know- at our facility there is already talk of training cnas to do treatments and such ( they have only had one med tech that is still on orientaion and think its WONDERFUL)- next will be trachs and theyll save tons of money hiring the crossed trained cnas and put it all on the shoulder of one nurse- youwatch - it will get there.
Nov 12, '06[QUOTE=lmaldo]Quote from goingnutsno there is not a b/p taken for every blood pressure pill every time its given - they are on a schedule - ie daily for the first 3 dasy there and then weekly for a while then monthly unless otherwise ordered by the doc for whatever reason. yes- dig gets a AP every time but that is about the extent - any assessments are done are done due to suspected problems ( breathing seems labored, urine output is darka nd oderous , etc) and done for 3 days or longer if suspected trouble is verified - if we had to do full assesments on all our residents wed never hae time for anything like pill passes or dressings or helpoing the aides ( yes we have to do that too cause they often are short staffed too) and let alone chart everything. further more- one must remember that for the most part our patients are not critical as in a hospital cause if we find they are we send em to you-Yes, I am in the nursing profession, but, I think you missed the point. You should be glad I am in the nursing profession because I seem to be the only one mentioning the patient as the point of concern. In the hospital I work in and teach in, I see so many new nurses that forget about what the patient is in the hospital for and are too caught up in worrying about their career, and judging from the replies to the email wondering about having the keys to the med drawer, or making sure the MAR is signed for, or that a CNA might take the medication for herself/himself instead of the patient still implies that the best interest of a patient is the last thing considered. And, by the way, I was positing an opinion, not slamming anyone who "disagrees" with me. You do make a very valid point - nursing homes do have a high patient-to-nurse ratio, and you can get absolutely slammed. I know I couldn't work in a nursing home because the loads placed on nurses is beyond safe measures. I applaud you. But, it still concerns me that the first statement you make is that you don't want to get in trouble, not "the patient is in trouble therefore..." It sounds as though the DON may not managing the facility very well. It is still unacceptable that assessments are not made, especially when meds are given. Are you telling me you don't always take a blood pressure before you give a blood pressure medication or having an aide get the blood pressure for you? These are simply reasons that it is not a good idea to let CNA's pass meds. The really neat stuff we use in a hospital is our critical thinking skills that helps us the most. I especially like the stethescope. It is really cool and very helpful.