Letting CNA pass your meds, bad idea? - page 11

I fill the cups and check for all interactions and whatnot, but anyone have any negative experiences or can think of any possible neg exp with this? Thanks... Read More

  1. by   goingnuts
    [quote=txspadequeen921]LAWD, this is the kind of post that makes me wonder what the Texas BON was thinking when they passed out nursing licenses. Sure about 70% of the meds in LTC could be cut out ... but unless you have MD or DO behind your name , you dont decide what the resident takes. We are not speaking of ABT's here either, so I dont even know where that came from. Just because you havent had a problem in past does not mean your practice is safe ..it means your lucky. I guarentee that if you do have a problem because of your incompetent practices the Texas BON will not accept that the residents dont need all that junk anyway or I have to get the pills out and dont have time to take the BP's. I cant believe you have made it this far without a problem either...This is the kind of stuff that gives LVN's a bad rap....[/:spin: ABT is a pill and we are talking about pills so that is where that came from. For the record I understand your concern. And for the record I have no intention of ever telling the BON or anyone else what I sometimes have to do in the name of time and making sure the nursing home makes lots of money. I am being fesicious here since I of course couldn't care less if I make the nursing home owners richer.
    Last edit by goingnuts on Oct 28, '06
  2. by   Nurset1981
    I'm at a loss. I work so hard to make sure that the needs of ALL my patients are met every shift I work. You don't get to pick and choose what is the most important. If you have a problem with certain meds or assessments or whatever then get on the horn and get it changed or d/c'd. You can't just not do it. I can't believe that I even have to say that. And by the way Goingnuts, I do think you are the worst thing to come into nursing since caps, but you said it I didn't. And just for your information, some nursing home patients can be very acute. Maybe some nursing home patients are of a hardier stock, they've been through alot, but does that mean that they should get half-assed care? I'd hate to have you standing over my bed with 100 of atenolol and you debating whether or not to check my pulse and BP. You're asking for a lawsuit.
  3. by   goingnuts
    Quote from Nurset1981
    I'm at a loss. I work so hard to make sure that the needs of ALL my patients are met every shift I work. You don't get to pick and choose what is the most important. If you have a problem with certain meds or assessments or whatever then get on the horn and get it changed or d/c'd. You can't just not do it. I can't believe that I even have to say that. And by the way Goingnuts, I do think you are the worst thing to come into nursing since caps, but you said it I didn't. And just for your information, some nursing home patients can be very acute. Maybe some nursing home patients are of a hardier stock, they've been through alot, but does that mean that they should get half-assed care? I'd hate to have you standing over my bed with 100 of atenolol and you debating whether or not to check my pulse and BP. You're asking for a lawsuit.
    Well my dear if you are trying to impress someone with your wonderful nursing skills I hope you succeded. And I wish you would learn to read better. I never said I was the worst thing since caps. Geez, I said some of you seem to think I am. You are awful quick to throw insults. In fact you strike me as someone that would never miss an oppertunity to put someone else down. If you really think I am the worse thing you have seen in nursing then you either haven't seen much or you are lying. In any case you don't know much about nursing residents. The majority do not want to take any medicine at all. Some even have to be tricked into taking it. But whatever insult you throw my way this time, I would make it a doozy since I intend to let you have the last word. One more thing, If I have time to debate whether I am going to do something then I have time to do it. So for gosh sakes get off of your high horse. Something about people that insist on tooting their own horn makes me doubt their veracity.
  4. by   MVH119
    Nurset1981 is talking rubbish. I'd trust our wonderful, indispensable HCA's with anything short of a intubation.
    HCA's aren't stupid. As a student I learned more from them than I did from the qualified staff.
  5. by   DusktilDawn
    Quote from MVH119
    Nurset1981 is talking rubbish. I'd trust our wonderful, indispensable HCA's with anything short of a intubation.
    HCA's aren't stupid. As a student I learned more from them than I did from the qualified staff.
    The debate isn't about HCA's being stupid, nor is it about lack of trust in HCAs. It's about HCA's lacking the education to safely administer medications and it's about whether this should be a task delegated to HCAs.
    Originally Posted by walla189
    I fill the cups and check for all interactions and whatnot, but anyone have any negative experiences or can think of any possible neg exp with this?

    Thanks
    There's a reason why it is POUNDED into our heads that WE DO NOT ADMINISTER MEDICATIONS THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS PREPARED. It is about the safety of the patients we take care of.

    How about we all stick to the orignal topic.
  6. by   MVH119
    I see no reason at all why a HCA cannot administer a medicine properly checked by a staff nurse. If you, as a qualified nurse have not correctly checked the contraindications, interactions and safety of the medication then don't ask a HCA to give it.
    If you HAVE checked all that then I see no reason why you should not delegate this task.
  7. by   DusktilDawn
    And if that medication is given to the wrong patient by that HCA than who is responsible? It will be the nurse who will ultimately be held accountable. I fail to see how it is considered safe practice to prepare medication and than hand that medication over to another to give to a patient. Seems to me adding another person into the process of medication administration INCREASES the chances of error, which is why NURSES ARE TAUGHT NOT TO GIVE MEDICATIONS THAT THEY DID NOT PREPARE THEMSELVES. The nurse bears responsibility and accountability for accuracy of the five rights in regards to medication administration. The nurse is the most appropriate person to monitor patient responses to medication, provide education to the patient and family about medication, and inform the physician when medications are effective or ineffective or whether they are no longer necessary. Medication administration is more than just handing drugs to a patient and it should be more than just handing medication to another to administer.
  8. by   Nurse`Chief~Chickie
    Quote from MVH119
    I see no reason at all why a HCA cannot administer a medicine properly checked by a staff nurse. If you, as a qualified nurse have not correctly checked the contraindications, interactions and safety of the medication then don't ask a HCA to give it.
    If you HAVE checked all that then I see no reason why you should not delegate this task.

    :imbar I will refer you to the pages of posts that entail why this IS a BAD idea!!!
    You DON'T give meds someone else has prepared, and you don't delegate tasks to someone out side their scope of practice! I love my licsense, I want to keep it.Badbadbad idea...
  9. by   Nurset1981
    My nursing skills speak for themselves. I don't need to try to be impressive, nor do I lack basic nursing skills. I never said that CNA's were stupid, just that they lack the education and experience to pass meds. And as Dusktilldawn stated "The nurse is the most appropriate person to monitor patient responses to medication, provide education to the patient and family about medication, and inform the physician when medications are effective or ineffective or whether they are no longer necessary. Medication administration is more than just handing drugs to a patient and it should be more than just handing medication to another to administer."
    I think that was well put.
  10. by   MVH119
    Rubbish. I often give routine oral meds to our HCA's
    If you have done your job properly are 100% sure that your practice is safe then what harm can come from it?
    A HCA giving a Paracetamol tablet hardly threatens your registation.
    Last edit by gwenith on Oct 27, '06
  11. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from MVH119
    Nurset1981 is talking rubbish. I'd trust our wonderful, indispensable HCA's with anything short of a intubation.
    HCA's aren't stupid. As a student I learned more from them than I did from the qualified staff.
    That's a scary program you graduated from. CNAs are valuable members of the health care team, but...
  12. by   Nurse`Chief~Chickie
    Quote from MVH119
    Rubbish. I often give routine oral meds to our HCA's
    If you have done your job properly are 100% sure that your practice is safe then what harm can come from it?
    A HCA giving a Paracetamol tablet hardly threatens your registation unless you are some manner of idiot.

    Well it does here. And the manner of idiot that I am just happens to be professional and responsible. I'm sure that you didn't really mean that all of us that don't practice nursing as a casual job that just anyone can do, (they take Tyl at home,..right?) were idiots, right?
    The only way to be sure you are 100% safe, is to not delegate tasks to people who are not qualified.
  13. by   DusktilDawn
    Quote from MVH119
    Rubbish. I often give routine oral meds to our HCA's
    If you have done your job properly are 100% sure that your practice is safe then what harm can come from it?
    A HCA giving a Paracetamol tablet hardly threatens your registation unless you are some manner of idiot.
    In regards to medication administration, I consider it part of my job TO ADMINISTER MY OWN MEDICATIONS THAT I HAVE PREPARED. However carefully and accurately one may prepare their medications to be dispensed by another does not preclude the fact that the person they hand them over to is capable of making an error ALL ON THEIR OWN.

    BTW it doesn't take an idiot to make an error.

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