Jehovah Witness RNs - page 9

Ok, here I am waving my big "look at me" flag, hopefully not painting a giant target on myself..... :uhoh21: Im looking for any RNs who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I am one (yes, active), and I have recently come across a work... Read More

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    Quote from pirap
    We recently had a patient on our floor that was JW. She coded during a C/S and was in need of blood. She signed the refusal prior to surgery but her entire family "contested" the refusal form-basically because they didn't believe that their family member truly expected to encounter such a serious result from a "routine C/S." They ultimately "won." After their family member was brought back and then sent to the ICU and all looked good they wanted the "no blood products" issue to be in effect once again after it was initially contested. I am still confused about that entire scenario...
    Some times, when confronted with a life or death situation, people will change their minds. And when it is no longer a life or death situation, revert back to their original beliefs. It is frustrating to us as nurses but it is their right. How did the patient feel about her blood transfusion when informed after her section?

    Woody

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  2. 2
    Quote from sicu queen
    this whole discussion has deteriorated and i'm just curious if the op really ever had a question or was just trying to get a good debate going? there's been no response from her since the original post, i think...


    from the op, it sounded as though she wanted to have a conversation via pm, probably to avoid getting attacked.

    even if she had wanted to have a public discussion about how her beliefs impact her nursing care, it wouldn't surprise me that she hasn't responded back after the direction this thread has gone.

    i've been following it because i find religions fascinating, and wanted to learn more about concerns of jws, esp regarding healthcare.

    my limited experience with jws does show me that everyone follows the docterine of the faith a little differently. some accept albumin, some don't. some accept cell saver, some don't. it depends on what they are comfortable with.

    that seems to be true of most religions.

    even when the regligious docterines do not allow for individual interpretation, individuals do tend to take the parts of a religion they argree with, and leave the rest.

    it may not be what the elders of the particular religion sanction, but it does happen.
    pagandeva2000 and crackerjack like this.
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    Quote from WitchyRN
    Ok, I have some questions...We were actually discussing protocols at orientation today regarding when a patient refuses blood for religious reasons. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one patient in our OR was a practicing JW, and told me that Cellsaver(autologous blood) was not allowed because the blood has left the patient's body, therefore it cannot be used. Another nurse in orientation said she'd taken care of a patient who was OK with the cellsaver.
    I was wondering if there are varying degrees of JW's that belive differently on certain issues? We were wondering this today.
    Witnesses base their beliefs on the Bible, not on what a group of people tell them to believe, and the thing is, the Bible is 2000 years old. It mentions not taking in blood, but knowledge of blood fractions and Cellsaver was pretty sketchy at that point.

    So while JWs don't accept major blood products, as you start getting down to the molecular level, people choose for themselves how to apply what the Bible says about blood, hence the variety of treatments opted for.

    Personally I'm guessing this point will probably be moot in 10-20 years. A lot more stuff will be synthetic, and non-blood treatments options will be pretty routine for everyone, not just JWs.
    G_Lee17 and PatMac10,RN like this.
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    Ok so in the post about the C/S patient....

    She signed the blood refusal form....did she have an advanced directive that states her family/spouse could make that decision...I am just confused leagally speaking...

    If they sign the blood refusal....have not named anyone who can make decisions...and the family wants blood....can that patient recover, then sue the hospital???

    Also....to any JWs out there....if patient comes in the ER from an MVA and is uncounsious....receives blood...are there any ramifications from the church.....

    and if the MD gets a court order for a child to receive blood against the parents wishes....does that child have ramifications from the church??

    this is all very interesting to me and I think this board is a great place to share opinions, ideas, and share experiences. I am not here to BASH anyone...I just find all this very interesting and informative.

    side note....I have worked with one JW nurse before, never had an issues as far as giving blood, confidentiality, ect....that I know of. However, it was very common for us to have pot lucks for peoples birthdays....if she participates...is that against the JW religion? again...just curious....
    pagandeva2000 and Pneumothorax like this.
  5. 1
    Quote from feebebe23
    Ok so in the post about the C/S patient....

    She signed the blood refusal form....did she have an advanced directive that states her family/spouse could make that decision...I am just confused leagally speaking...

    If they sign the blood refusal....have not named anyone who can make decisions...and the family wants blood....can that patient recover, then sue the hospital???

    Also....to any JWs out there....if patient comes in the ER from an MVA and is uncounsious....receives blood...are there any ramifications from the church.....

    and if the MD gets a court order for a child to receive blood against the parents wishes....does that child have ramifications from the church??

    this is all very interesting to me and I think this board is a great place to share opinions, ideas, and share experiences. I am not here to BASH anyone...I just find all this very interesting and informative.

    side note....I have worked with one JW nurse before, never had an issues as far as giving blood, confidentiality, ect....that I know of. However, it was very common for us to have pot lucks for peoples birthdays....if she participates...is that against the JW religion? again...just curious....

    If blood is given to someone against their wishes then there would be no reason for ramifications from their religious leaders because they had nothing to do with the decision to receive blood. I also keep in mind that everyone who says they are a JW may not "really" be. There are plenty of people who never got baptized or haven't been a practicing JW for years but still claim that as their "religion". This could account for a lot of the variety in what you see "JW's" doing.
    PatMac10,RN likes this.
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    Quote from woody62
    Not necessarily so. If an order goes against the religious beliefs of a nurse, she/he cannot be forced to engage in the order, regardless of who has written it. As long as the employer is aware of the beliefs, the employer cannot force an employee to act contrary to the employee's religious beliefs.

    Woody
    I feel that everyone has the right to their own decisions, both patient and nurse, but as professionals we are here for the public whatever treatment it may be, against or for our beliefs or not. I want to think its our professional duty to follow their plan of care. if its something that can be managed (letting another nurse hang the blood) thats reasonable as care can be completed, but if it cannot be... that just seems unprofessional. thats my opinion... nothing to do with religion at all...
    pagandeva2000 likes this.
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    If anyone is interested in what their official website says, I would suggest going to www.watchtower.org. That is where you can find your answers. Just do a search on blood.
    fmwf and PatMac10,RN like this.
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    "For example, if a person associating with Jehovah's Witnesses is not married and obtains birth control products, Aimeeinorbit is expected to share this information with her elders. If she does not, she will be judged by them as "covering over a sin." Other medical procedures would also be covered by this: abortions, treatment for alcoholism, blood transfusions, or even receiving a blood fraction that does not have the approval of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. Aimeeinorbit may have some very serious conflicts."

    A JW can be on birth control without being married. Their are other reasons for being on "the pill" other than preventing pregnancy from having sex. And does this mean that a Roman Catholic RN has to report to her priest about a fellow parishoner (sp?) for obtaining BC without being married? Because it is my understanding that they are forbidden from using BC. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

    A JW can be treated for alcoholism; that is a disease just like any other.

    See my above post on information from their only official website at www.watchtower.org for further information.

    All I can say is that while I may not agree with other people's religions, I certainly do not go around bashing them, especially not on a public forum. As RNs it is expected that we treat all our patients with respect, dignity and without bias no matter who they are or what they believe. Just like we have to respect cultural differences, we have to respect religious differences.

    I'm sure the OP is terrified of posting anything else now. Hopefully we can put this to rest since it has deviated from the OP.
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    I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and work as an RN on a busy labor and delivery unit. I HAVE been in the position of losing so much blood (in childbirth) that I was told that I would die if I did not receive it. It is scary but displeasing our creator much more so. I did not receive blood and am here today yrs after the fact. I will not participate in abortions. This is also the stance of most of the nurses on my unit even though they are not JW's. No ramifications for standing their ground as it is a matter of conscience. As far as hanging blood, we help each other out and work as a team in all areas so I have encountered no problems here. I too suggest that you go to the Watchtower Society's only official site: www.Watchtower.org You will encounter more and more Jehovah's Witnesses as patient's. Be enformed!!

    I wondered how long before we had this discussion.
    fmwf, PatMac10,RN, and FireStarterRN like this.
  10. 0
    Quote from danamobile
    I feel that everyone has the right to their own decisions, both patient and nurse, but as professionals we are here for the public whatever treatment it may be, against or for our beliefs or not. I want to think its our professional duty to follow their plan of care. if its something that can be managed (letting another nurse hang the blood) thats reasonable as care can be completed, but if it cannot be... that just seems unprofessional. thats my opinion... nothing to do with religion at all...
    I am a practicing Roman Catholic. AS a Roman Catholic I cannot have an abortion and I cannot assist at one. When this was an issue for me, I told my employer of my religious beliefs. They agreed not to assign me to any abortion. If a patient had come in, is miscarrying and in need of a surgical abortion, and I were the only nurse available, I would have put my religious beliefs aside and assisted. Then I would have gone to confession as soon as possible. And I doubt my regular confessor would have denied me forgiveness, which he could do. We had discussed just such a situation, when I asked for his guidance. He told me that a higher law, to save another's life, took over, in place of church law.

    However, if my religious beliefs prevented me from giving care, my employer was aware of it, then I think there is nothing unprofessional in my refusal. Neither I nor others who had religious beliefs that prevent them from taking part in certain procedures, hide our beliefs. We only ask that they be respected, just like any beliefs you have, that you feel should be respected.

    Woody


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