Is it fianally time to retire NETY?

  1. I have been hearing the tale about NETY the older nurse who takes great joy in making new nursesfeel so bad that many leave the profession after an encounter with her. For the record I have never been bullied during my career especially when I was starting out. I had great preceptors who were always willing to teach me and show me interesting things.

    I my own experience as I have gotten older I find that so-called collateral violence seems to occur more often from younger nurses towards older nurses. We have all encountered a new, fresh out of school nurse who thinks they know it all and has nothing to learn from those of us who fall into the crusty old bat category. They are jaded before they even start!

    One observation that I have seen in the past few years is that we as a culture have raised a generation of people who are offended by just about everything. It used to be if someone had a difference of opinion with you it was just that - we shrugged our shoulders and moved on. Now we feel compelled to tell others how offended and bullied we are for being different.

    In my career I have encountered a few rather unpleasant personalities. Sometimes they have done/said things that were not very nice but It has never risen to the height of actual bullying mainly because I confront such behavior. Being in recovery has taught me a lot about letting go of fear and resentment. In one case a rather jerky nurse said out loud in the nurse's station " I heard your a drunk! Is that true?" I could have chosen to walk away but instead I just looked at him and said "That's drunk in recovery to you - I'll be happy to talk to you later in private if you want." Turned on my heel and went about my duties.

    I don't let things fester and stew - I don't have enough room in my head to let other people rent space there. In fact I often don't think of work at all when I am not there.

    So can't we just retire NETY and move on with the knowledge that there are jerks everywhere.

    Peace and Namaste

    Hppy
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  2. 51 Comments

  3. by   MunoRN
    I think the term is often incorrectly applied, but then these examples are then used to claim it doesn't exist. Pushing a new grad to succeed is not NETY, pushing them to fail is.

    I've worked in a number of occupations where you don't exactly get a warm and fuzzy feeling from your coworkers, particularly if you are new; commercial fishing, construction, explosives work, none of these offer anything that could be considered coddling or otherwise warm and fuzzy treatment but the purpose of this 'tough love' is to help you improve and succeed. I was surprised after coming from these backgrounds to see nurses where the goal appears to be to see another nurse fail or experience negative repercussions.
  4. by   OrganizedChaos
    I have never had a bad experience as a new nurse or experienced nurse. I've had horrible bosses but as far as coworkers treating me badly, never.

    I think the since kids nowadays are given ribbons for participating & handled with baby gloves way beyond childhood, this is what we get.
  5. by   RNDarling
    Quote from OrganizedChaos
    I have never had a bad experience as a new nurse or experienced nurse. I've had horrible bosses but as far as coworkers treating me badly, never.

    I think the since kids nowadays are given ribbons for participating & handled with baby gloves way beyond childhood, this is what we get.
    Agreed, people now get trophies for showing up and we wonder why the newest generations grow up so entitled.

    To hppy, I am impressed by you and your response to the idiot at the nurses station you referenced. No one deserves to be disrespected at work and we can all do our part to instill a positive culture at work.
  6. by   Susie2310
    I agree that NETY is often wrongly applied and that these misapplications are often cited as evidence that bullying of newer nurses by more experienced nurses is not really a problem of any magnitude. And while some people appear to cry NETY for situations that do not really appear to constitute bullying, i.e. a deliberate pattern of behavior designed to hurt/undermine another person, other people factually report details of being on the receiving end of actual repeated behavior (verbal or actions) that appears to be meant to weaken/injure them. So I don't see any reason to retire NETY, because NETY exists in reality. Furthermore, the ANA has recognized bullying as a workplace problem.

    It is easy to come from a place of strength and proclaim that all one needs to do is to stand up to bullies in order to avoid or circumvent being bullied, but to people who are less able to stand up for themselves who actually need other people's help defending themself from a bully this advice has limited value. I think we all know we are supposed to be able to stand up to bullies; the difficulty for some is being able to do so. And in situations where an individual is being bullied by more than one person it is all the more difficult to do this. There is often an imbalance in power - bullying is often conducted by people with more power (for example, seniority) than their victim, and this is another reason that their victims shouldn't be expected to deal with the situation of the person bullying them by themself.
    Last edit by Susie2310 on Jun 8
  7. by   KatieMI
    Following this "logic", I proudly cast my vote for retiring "domestic violence". I never experienced it, and, according to my observations, it is termed incorrectly. It should instead be named "correction through love" and serves important purpose of teaching about communications and interpersonal relationship within the family.
  8. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from KatieMI
    Following this "logic", I proudly cast my vote for retiring "domestic violence". I never experienced it, and, according to my observations, it is termed incorrectly. It should instead be named "correction through love" and serves important purpose of teaching about communications and interpersonal relationship within the family.
    That makes no sense. "NETY" is an overused, buzz word. Lateral violence better suits it. New grads aren't the only one who get bullied. Experienced nurses & everyone in between get bullied. Why should the focus only be on the new grads? People (myself included) who have never experienced it aren't saying it doesn't exists, we're just saying new grads aren't the only ones to get harassed.

    Ontop of that, the new grads who come on the forum to complain about "NETY", their posts don't even fall into the category of bullying. We are tired of new grads whining about being bullied when they aren't & so many other people in nursing get bullied, not just the new grads.
  9. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from Susie2310
    I agree that NETY is often wrongly applied and that these misapplications are often cited as evidence that bullying of newer nurses by more experienced nurses is not really a problem of any magnitude. And while some people appear to cry NETY for situations that do not really appear to constitute bullying, i.e. a deliberate pattern of behavior designed to hurt/undermine another person, other people factually report details of being on the receiving end of actual repeated behavior (verbal or actions) that appears to be meant to weaken/injure them. So I don't see any reason to retire NETY, because NETY exists in reality. Furthermore, the ANA has recognized bullying as a workplace problem.
    Lateral violence is a more appropriate term than "NETY". Because old nurses are not the only ones who "bully". If we retired the term "NETY" & used the term lateral violence it would take the spotlight off experienced nurses & that shows them in a degrading light.
  10. by   amzyRN
    I agree that more precise language needs to be used to describe "NETY" or "bullying". Targeting, harrassing and sabotaging colleagues is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated. I've witnessed a lot more poor behavior and down right hostility towards nurses by physicians than I have seen nurses doing this to other nurses. I don't mean just grouchiness, but name calling, throwing and kicking things, yelling at the tops of lungs. I have also never every seen anything done about it at any place I've worked before even the best employers.
  11. by   KatieMI
    Quote from OrganizedChaos
    That makes no sense. "NETY" is an overused, buzz word. Lateral violence better suits it. New grads aren't the only one who get bullied. Experienced nurses & everyone in between get bullied. Why should the focus only be on the new grads? People (myself included) who have never experienced it aren't saying it doesn't exists, we're just saying new grads aren't the only ones to get harassed.

    On top of that, the new grads who come on the forum to complain about "NETY", their posts don't even fall into the category of bullying. We are tired of new grads whining about being bullied when they aren't & so many other people in nursing get bullied, not just the new grads.
    Yet, new grads (as well as "new" hires and "new" in specialty nurses) seem to be more affected by "lateral violence" (Lateral Violence in Nursing and the Theory of the Nurse as Wounded Healer)

    Every time someone starts talking about "retiring" or "not naming" some negative things like they are, I remember the thing named "Overton window":

    Overton window - Wikipedia

    It works positively as well as negatively - so, if it would be decided that there is no such thing as specific kind of lateral violence affecting primarily new nurses/new hires, then the next logical step will be that there is actually no such thing as "lateral violence", that it only happens "vertically" between nurses and patients, or nurses and doctors. And so forth, till there would be decided that there is just no such thing as "lateral violence" at all - which is already happening right now.

    Up to 85% of nurses experience lateral violence, and 93% report witnessing it with experienced nurses most commonly being perpetrators and "novices" being victims (same source as above). The only one condition when these numbers could be possible is that NETY (or "lateral violence", if you like it more this way) is considered to be NORMAL behavior in close to 90% nursing settings.
  12. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from KatieMI
    Yet, new grads (as well as "new" hires and "new" in specialty nurses) seem to be more affected by "lateral violence" (Lateral Violence in Nursing and the Theory of the Nurse as Wounded Healer)

    Every time someone starts talking about "retiring" or "not naming" some negative things like they are, I remember the thing named "Overton window":

    Overton window - Wikipedia

    It works positively as well as negatively - so, if it would be decided that there is no such thing as specific kind of lateral violence affecting primarily new nurses/new hires, then the next logical step will be that there is actually no such thing as "lateral violence", that it only happens "vertically" between nurses and patients, or nurses and doctors. And so forth, till there would be decided that there is just no such thing as "lateral violence" at all - which is already happening right now.

    Up to 85% of nurses experience lateral violence, and 93% report witnessing it with experienced nurses most commonly being perpetrators and "novices" being victims (same source as above). The only one condition when these numbers could be possible is that NETY (or "lateral violence", if you like it more this way) is considered to be NORMAL behavior in close to 90% nursing settings.
    But the term is "nurses eat their young", not new. So again, lateral/vertical (whichever direction it needs to go) violence is a better term to use. Or we can rename it to something else.

    The last source I would use & trust is Wikipedia.

    With those numbers I'd like to know were they honestly bullied & harassed or was it just in their minds, like the many posts we see here. I'm not saying people don't get bullied or the numbers are bologna, but with the amount of new grads coming on here waving the "NETY" flag (with their posts about how no one wants to be their friend on their first day on the floor), it makes me wonder about those numbers.

    The worst I was ever treated was by a physician. Hands down. I haven't been a nurse for a super long time & have never worked in a hospital but definitely have to say #1 worst treatment was from a physician.
  13. by   Wuzzie
    I think the term "workplace incivility" is much more accurate in describing the bad behavior sometimes exhibited by nurses new and seasoned. Even "lateral violence" is far too dramatic for most of what we hear about.
  14. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from Wuzzie
    I think the term "workplace incivility" is much more accurate in describing the bad behavior sometimes exhibited by nurses new and seasoned. Even "lateral violence" is far too dramatic for most of what we hear about.
    Exactly. That's why I questioned the percentage KatieMI quoted. What one person believes is bullying another person might not (ala the bullying petition thread).

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Is it fianally time to retire NETY?