Is anyone else uncomfortable with this? - page 5

I know I should be thankful when a CMT is on my floor and passes my meds for me, but it makes me somewhat uncomfortable and I feel the need to pass the meds myself. I'm just not sure that a CMT will... Read More

  1. by   Gromit
    I'm sorry, maybe I'm prejudiced. I just don't want ANYONE giving my patients medications except for myself. MY signature goes on the MARs every night, and my signature is on the flowsheet. I feel like I'm the one who will be held responsible if the patient has adverse effects. There are other things that would help me in the job far more than just being a pill-dropper.
  2. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from tiwi
    can students in the us give meds without supervision?
    no. they are supposed to have studied the meds they will be passing prior to the clinical shift on which they will pass them. then, the instructor is supposed to quiz them about the med and if she feels they know the meds and have done their preparation and understand the reasons for the meds, side effects, interactions, etc., she lets them go ahead and give them. if not, they are supposed to not be allowed to give meds yet.

    the instructor is supposed to make sure the med dose, route, time, etc. are correct.
  3. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    Completely disagree. It's yet another scenario where the nurse is the fallguy.
    If this happened, I would try to get the order. However, whoever did this would get educated on the proper way to deal with this.

    1. Get the order.
    2. Give the med after you do #1.

    I'd report the whole mess to the higher-up's and pray no one (like a lawyer) ever noticed that the med was given before the order was obtained. Risk Management and the Administrator, as well as the DON, Ward Manager, and whoever all else would be made aware that I was not the one who made the mistake. I would expect them to take care that it never occurred again.

    Who is teaching these people to do this? What if the doctor didn't want to give a Tylenol order - like maybe liver enzymes are up or whatever?
  4. by   dawn66
    People who comment on CMA's should find out what they are before commenting. We are not CMT's or CNA's. We do not work under the license of any nurse, nor is any nurse responsible for our actions. I and many other CMAs have an AS in Medical Assisting which means 2 years of college and clinical work along with an externship. We have A&P and pharmacology. We have more education than LPN's and the same as many RN's We take a national certifying exam and must maintain our certification with CEU's or re-examination every 5 yrs. CEU's are 60 in 5 yrs. I have been in this field for 20 years and believe me know far more than any newbie nurse. ANY QUESTIONS??????
  5. by   Gromit
    No questions, just a comment. Right from the beginning I expressed that I didn't know what these were (I've certainly never worked with any -perhaps they aren't recognized in Florida? ) -and I also expressed that I didn't want anyone giving meds to my patients except for ME. I still stand by that statement. I don't even have CNAs do my vitals -I do them myself. Its my habit and I stand by it. I certainly meant no insult to that field or its' qualifications -I only 'knew' what I read in this thread -and given what I was reading, I certainly wouldn't want one giving meds to my patients. If, however, I'm not to be held responsible, then its not my business to stick my nose in it -so long as no harm comes to my patient.
  6. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    People who comment on CMA's should find out what they are before commenting.
    Already did, a long time ago, and like most subjects, i research to educate myself before forming my own opinion.

    And the more i read on this thread's subject (CMTs giving meds), the more dangerous it seems.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Mar 10, '07 : Reason: clarification
  7. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from dawn66
    We have more education than LPN's and the same as many RN's
    If that is so, then why even have nurses in the first place? Something about that quoted claim just isn't washing.

    I have been in this field for 20 years and believe me know far more than any newbie nurse. ANY QUESTIONS??????
    Just one: how many positive replies have you gotten with claiming that?
  8. by   effiedo
    Quote from Tiwi
    Before I became an RN, I was a non-medication endorsed EN. My hospital did not recognise medication endorsed ENs anyway. So this meant that we could not administer medications, unless under the direct supervision of a registered nurse. Imagine some poor RN watching me give the morning meds? Like she had nothing else to do! I felt that legally I was not only compromising myself but also the RN who was responsible for my medications. So I wouldn't give meds from choice.

    If a CMT (I am not sure of their role) isn't recognised then I would not be happy about them doing it either. If they are able to take legal responsibility, then they should already have training to do so, and are accountable for their own actions
    A MEN TN Rn o f35 yrs. MKP
  9. by   cmatobe
    Quote from TrudyRN
    If this happened, I would try to get the order. However, whoever did this would get educated on the proper way to deal with this.

    1. Get the order.
    2. Give the med after you do #1.

    I'd report the whole mess to the higher-up's and pray no one (like a lawyer) ever noticed that the med was given before the order was obtained. Risk Management and the Administrator, as well as the DON, Ward Manager, and whoever all else would be made aware that I was not the one who made the mistake. I would expect them to take care that it never occurred again.

    Who is teaching these people to do this? What if the doctor didn't want to give a Tylenol order - like maybe liver enzymes are up or whatever?

    No one is teaching us to do this. We are following procedure the same as the nurses do, in regard to passing meds. We have the same accountability as the nurses, the same rules and regulations. We are to never, NEVER give a med. without an order - actually, we have a whole list of "never"s, same as the nurses. And as long as we pass meds. according to the rules and regulations we have, all will be well.
  10. by   cmatobe
    Quote from Gromit
    I'm sorry, maybe I'm prejudiced. I just don't want ANYONE giving my patients medications except for myself. MY signature goes on the MARs every night, and my signature is on the flowsheet. I feel like I'm the one who will be held responsible if the patient has adverse effects. There are other things that would help me in the job far more than just being a pill-dropper.

    We cannot work in hospitals, period, let alone in a step-down unit or ICU. We will be in nursing homes and assisted-living homes, where the patients have been on a lot of the same medications for months or years, and are stable on them, according to the labs and the objective/subjective data.

    We do not give the first dose of any medication - the nurse will do that, and observe for adverse reactions.

    We do, however, sign off the MAR`s, which makes US accountable in a court of law, not the nurses, for our actions re: the med. passes.
  11. by   Gromit
    Ok, I could see that. I do wonder though, does this position exist in Florida? Did a quickie search and didn't see it -and here is the first I've ever heard of it (of course, since I don't hang out at LTCs or ALFs that could well be the reason).
  12. by   dawn66
    Just for the record, upon further reading some of these things, some of what is being spoken about refers to a Certified Medication Aide, which is completely different than a Certified Medical Assistant which is what I am and the education I spoke of refers to that, not the Medication Aide. This is where my anger came from when I read that someone said CMA's have two weeks training. Also, my comments had nothing to do with the actual duty of passing meds. Certified Medical Assistants do not work in hospitals as a rule anyway unless it is in some other capacity. We do however give drugs, IV and orally in clinics, offices, etc. I mostly felt people were uninformed and making judjments about a vocation that they knew nothing about. I now realize they were speaking of the medication aides. Certified Medical Assistants are nationally recognized, trained and monitored. I don't think Certified Medication Aides should also be referred to as CMA's. This makes life quite confusing.
  13. by   Gromit
    that much is true. I've seen medical assistant classes (ads for them) all the time on TV, but I've never heard of or seen MEDICATION aids...

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