Incompetent acts witnessed.Legal responsibilities?

dfk, RN, CRNA · Nov 30, 2005

sounds bogus to me what happened to u.. are/were u in a union? get as many witnesses that can aid in your fight.. it's funny they would rather keep someone 'in the family' than a good nurse.. that's politics for you.. perhaps it's not worth working for such a facility anyway.. a blessing in disguise? i definitely would fight it, even if principle alone. go all the way to your state board, etc... good luck. also, i would send nurse kavorkian a thank you card. :angryfire

EDValerieRN, ASN, RN · Nov 30, 2005

I think it would be a good idea to call risk management anyways. Just because they fired you doesn't mean you can't still report it. Plus it would really make that manager mad. :rolleyes:

This seems wrong, but I know many states have a law that says companies can fire whoever whenever wherever they want without reproach.

Good luck!

bethin · Nov 30, 2005

I have a question. I worked at a hospital and witnessed my nurse manager's best friend( recently stepped down from assistant manager to reg staff nurse) doing some really crazy things that was blatantly incompetent.This nurse hadnt done ICU patient care in a long time and "refused" any type of orientation.I reported what I witnessed to the nurse manager and told her that I intended on informing risk management. The nurse manager had many many nurses complain about this nurses low skill set(nicely put). I was fired within hours.I have never had any verbal or written warnings.I only have compliments and great performance evals in my file. I was fired on bogus charges of "documenting vital signs before the time had occurred". I have been informed it is called a "preemptive strike".I am also told I should be protected under the "whistleblower" statutes which explicitly safeguard me from retaliatory acts by my employer. Does any one have any thoughts or info that might be helpful??

Could you please explain the "documenting vital signs before the time had occurred?" Do you mean you took vitals at 1555 but they were really 1600 vitals? If that's the case then they were fishing for something.

If other nurses had complained about this nurse's performance why weren't they fired? I'm not saying that you were wrong or should have been fired but do you think they had an agenda against you before this? From your post you sound like a very competent nurse who was looking out for your and other nurse's patients.

Keysnurse2008 · Nov 30, 2005

To explain here....documenting vitals before the time had occurred.It is our units pratice that we can document vital signs and administer meds 30 minutes before or after the hour that they are due bc...you can not be in every patients room at exactly 8 am , or exactly 9 am.So we are given a 30 minute window of opportunity before and after the hour.I took a break at 9:30 am and documented my 10 am vitals. It is also interesting that after I was terminated another nurse did no assessment on a critical patient and did not document any vitals for 8 hours and she did not get fired or written up.

Prior to this day I had received a promotion only a few weeks earlier.This promotion was granted at the request of that nurse manager.In her letter requesting my promotion she describes me as a expert nurse who is a role model to others. I have always been thanked for my patient safety activism....until I c/o the nurse managers best friend functioning in a unsafe manner. Then ...hours later,....with no write ups or verbal warnings in all my years of employment....I am fired.The reason I was fired and the others werent is bc...the others were ok to just complain to the nurse manager who wasnt listening....I wasnt.I point blank said I am just going to risk management.That's the difference. A retaliatory Act.My work history and evaluations are impeccable in all my years of employment.To answer your question ...their attorney is aware and so is risk management now. I am following their procedures and requests to provide information.I already have another job and am pretty happy there.But it still doesnt solve the fact that I was retaliated against for a legally and ethically correct act.It doesnt solve the fact that it is still a patient safety and now a liability issue for this hospital.But ...to answer your questions...I am proficient...I work hard at my job and work hard to increase my knowledge base....have a SPOTLESS work record at this hospital. Do you now understand my position?I even have an email from that unit manager she sent me hours before she fired me thanking me for my dedication to the nsg staff.

Nurse36_2000 · Nov 30, 2005

Honey.....Im a 20 yr Nurse with 10 years in employment area.....dont claim to know it all.....I have been fighting a dead end EXPENSIVE battle myself.....but first, check with your state laws before you raise too much stink ( you may have to go back to that hospital one day....even if ya dont want ) .....are you in a " Employment at will state" ......if so....the only way you can do anything is if you can PROVE that the same thing happened to someone else and they didnt do the same thing.............and then, you have to find an attorney to take the case.....which is not always easy........I have a HIPPA violation case......cant find a lawyer within 50 states......no new case law available.......good luck

dfk, RN, CRNA · Nov 30, 2005

even try a nurse attorney or legal nurse consultant.. they may also be able to help in ways others cannot (given the same work history)..

Keysnurse2008 · Dec 1, 2005

Nurse36,

I am in an "at will" employment state...however....we have laws/statutes to protect against retaliation here.To answer your question....conveniently enough I do have proof that the management of this hospital did have nurses with this same "alledged" violation and yes.....they were treated much much differently than myself. One was given a transfer she had been requesting to a much nicer job....and she had multiple multiple violations and never....NEVER...got written up much less fired. The other ...got zilch also....the other one who had been on PIC was actuially transferred to a non acute floor.Then there is me...never had a write up...never had a verbal warning...just got a promotion at the REQUEST of the same unit manager that fired me.Apx 48 hrs before she fired me...she sent me an email "thanking me for my dedication to the nsg staff".I have been a "model employee"......that is till I complained over her best friends actions that negatively impacted my patient.Then I was fired.But yeah...I have well documented proof that I was treated differently than other nurses in the same situation.I meet the temporal proximity rule...and can show well documented history of how I was treated differently than other nurses in the same situations.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Dec 1, 2005

Schedule a meeting w/ the DON.

Explain the situation. Explain that you feel this is whistleblower retaliation.

forget risk managment. The proper forum for this would have been your hospital's standing peer review committee. Tell the DON that you still want to express your concerns in writing to that committee.

Tell the DON you want your case to be referred to the peer review committee, that you feel fully capable of vindicating yourself.

Finally, state that it is unacceptable to you to have a termination on your work history and that you will take measures to protect your good name.

Then let her deal with it.

IF she refuses to allow you to refer the original complaint to the peer review committee, tell her that just bolsters your claim that this is retaliation.

If you have malpractice insurance, check w/ the policy: most allow you to retain an atty if your employer alleges malpractice - and that is the case here.

~faith,

Timothy.

Havin' A Party!, ASN, RN · Dec 2, 2005

I like Tim's approach.

If that goes nowhere, have you considered contacting your state BON? Will the other RNs that witnessed the incompetency cooperate?

Keysnurse2008 · Dec 4, 2005

The other nurses will not come forward any more to my hospital personell bc of realistic fears that they will be fired too. However, they will not lie or cya for the hospital when the bon is asking. They will tell the truth..

a21chdchic · Jul 29, 2007

I have seen similar situations. Even seen people go through all of the 'proper channels', and they never did seem to get anywhere. Some people hire attorneys and invest alot of time, energy, and money into hospital politics/issues. The bottom line is this. After all of the time, energy, and money has been invested, what has it actually accomplished. The people involved ultimately know what happened regardless of what is said and done. If it were me, I would do my reporting that I felt I needed to do to cover my backside and to do my 'duty' of being a reasonably prudent nurse, and let it go. I don't care to complicate my life with undue stress when I know change within an organization cannot come from outside that organization. Nor do I care to work for an organization who treats people like this. Ultimately, this is Organizational Politics and it is difficult to escape them because we all work for one unless we are self employed.