Illegal Alien- frustrated! - page 9

Please don't flame me. This is the only place I can comw to to vent and get some ideas on how to get myself back on track. I work with people who are immunosuppressed. I have a particular client who... Read More

  1. by   2bNurseguru
    Quote from ruby vee
    it doesn't matter how they pay for it if they're paying for it. when i, as a taxpayer am paying for it, i'm entitled to my opinion.
    \

    i am glad you are not a doctor, and i am scared to death even now to think that some nurses who are making life and death decisions think this way. hopefully you won't be tempted to end a patients life by denying them life saving treatment just because they are illegal.

    hope we have no doctors with such mentality.
    Last edit by 2bNurseguru on Nov 7, '06
  2. by   pacifica
    For those of you who despise paying taxes to support "illegals", you might want to take a look at this chart that shows how each of your Federal tax dollars is spent.

    http://www.fcnl.org/pdfs/taxday.pdf

    The biggest proportion by far ($0.42 of every $1.00) goes to support wars and the military infrastructure. My husband is an Army Reserves officer who spent a year in Iraq, by the way, and I can tell you from experience that very little of that $0.42 goes to help the soldiers pay for healthcare or equipment or anything else that improves their quality of life. The money goes to the Military-Industrial complex, including mega-rich corporations like KBR and Haliburton. These war profiteers are the real threats to the health, happiness and prosperity of normal Americans, not the Illegal Alien Bogeyman.

  3. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from ann rn
    i know the cost of healthcare is going up because the hospitals are not getting reinbursed for care. i know raises are not what they should be because hospitals are not getting reimbursed for care. i know nurse patient ratios are less than optimal because hospitals are not getting reimbursed for care. i know ancillary services are being cut because hospitals are not getting reimbursed for care. yes everyone is welcome here, but become a legal citizen and learn the language.

    i, too, am weary of students judging seasoned nurses. are we better? in some ways, absolutely. our knowledge base and experience far outweighs theirs.
    [font="comic sans ms"]and let me add my two cents. i am weary of the self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitudes that some students seem to have towards seasoned nurses. i'm sure i'll get flamed for this, but it seems that they can call us mean, nasty or lacking in compassion with impugnity. i understand that students tend to be far more idealistic than i am, after years -- decades, really -- in the trenches. but do they understand that i have seen a lot more than they have and may be entitled to my opinions?

    unfortunately, it's not just students. there seem to be many here that cannot seem to disagree without casting aspersions on the seasoned nurses they disagree with.
  4. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from rn/writer
    as a nurse, i avoid looking at the face sheet at the beginning of a patient's chart (that tells about insurance into) and concentrate instead on the person in need before me.

    as a private citizen, i grow increasingly frustrated, discouraged, and outraged at the way the healthcare system is being asked to do the impossible and may, at some point, collapse, in part, because of those who misuse or abuse it.

    as an allnurses.com member, i grow weary of those who are not in the trenches dealing with this on an everyday basis criticizing the opinions or those who are. behavior is fair game, but opinions and venting are not. if you disagree, state your own opinion and leave it at that. no need to go after anyone else.
    [font="comic sans ms"]
    as usual, you stated it well and to the point.
  5. by   Kyrshamarks
    Racist..Uncaring...Not compassionate... Hate mongering and a few other choice words here have been slung around describing those of us that oppose ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

    Well I guess you have to call me those things even though I take offense at ALL OF THEM. As being racist, say that to my face. I am married to a woman from another race. My kids are a mixed race. Infact she is a LEGAL IMMIGRANT here who also hates the illegal immigrant problem we have. Not comapssionate? I am a nurse. I know compassion and I deliver my care based on those principles. I do not judge my patient but I do not have to like thier choices either nor do I have to accept their choices. Hate Mongering? give me a break since when is loving your country and caring about it's finite resources hate mongering?

    I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
    I am a man.
    I am a husband.
    I am a father.
    I am a TAX PAYER.
    I am a voter.
    I am a good neighbor.
    I am a son.
    I am a member of my community.
    I am a proud vetern of our armed forces.
    I provide for my children.
    I provide charity for my fellow American.
    I am concerned about my country.
    I am a nurse.

    As you can see I am many things with being a nurse at the bottom. It is how I pay my bills and afford all the other things I am. It is not my whole identity it is just a small part of it so do not dare to question nurses who are concerned about their country and their feelings for nursing. Most of us have a life outside of nursing that is more important than nursing.

    As for another poster..I have lived outside of the USA. I have lived overseas as a child (non military) I have lived overseas as a military member (had to live "on the economy" former military members will uinderstand this). I also have lived overseas in thrid world countries as a non militray. I have seen how they live and the conditions they live in. I ask this, if it is a better life you want then why run? stand up and change your current life it can be done even overseas.

    By the way I also am currently a medicaid case manager who is finding financial resources and help for those ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS so I know that they are draining the system and we are paying for them.
  6. by   Altra
    Quote from kelly_the_great
    nurses provided healthcare.

    healthcare is a limited resource.

    many people vie for this resource.

    who pays for the resource provided?

    who deserves the benefit of the resource?

    how much and what quality of the resource does one particular group vs. another deserve?

    these are all issues of distributive justice related healthcare as a resource. to minimize these questions/issues and say, "why is this our concern as nurses?" is to not care. for you see, if you do not "care" about these concerns and you do not ask these questions you won't have the resource to provide. again, let me stress it's a limited resource.

    it continues to amaze me that as limited as healthcare is of a resource and as providers/facilitators of this resource, so many of us believe that it's distribution should'nt even be a concern to us.
    excellent post.

    food for thought for those who seem to equate critical thinking about the distribution of limited resources with a lack of compassion.
  7. by   2bNurseguru
    Quote from Kyrshamarks
    Racist..Uncaring...Not compassionate... Hate mongering and a few other choice words here have been slung around describing those of us that oppose ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

    Well I guess you have to call me those things even though I take offense at ALL OF THEM. As being racist, say that to my face. I am married to a woman from another race. My kids are a mixed race. Infact she is a LEGAL IMMIGRANT here who also hates the illegal immigrant problem we have. Not comapssionate? I am a nurse. I know compassion and I deliver my care based on those principles. I do not judge my patient but I do not have to like thier choices either nor do I have to accept their choices. Hate Mongering? give me a break since when is loving your country and caring about it's finite resources hate mongering?

    I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
    I am a man.
    I am a husband.
    I am a father.
    I am a TAX PAYER.
    I am a voter.
    I am a good neighbor.
    I am a son.
    I am a member of my community.
    I am a proud vetern of our armed forces.
    I provide for my children.
    I provide charity for my fellow American.
    I am concerned about my country.
    I am a nurse.

    As you can see I am many things with being a nurse at the bottom. It is how I pay my bills and afford all the other things I am. It is not my whole identity it is just a small part of it so do not dare to question nurses who are concerned about their country and their feelings for nursing. Most of us have a life outside of nursing that is more important than nursing.

    As for another poster..I have lived outside of the USA. I have lived overseas as a child (non military) I have lived overseas as a military member (had to live "on the economy" former military members will uinderstand this). I also have lived overseas in thrid world countries as a non militray. I have seen how they live and the conditions they live in. I ask this, if it is a better life you want then why run? stand up and change your current life it can be done even overseas.

    By the way I also am currently a medicaid case manager who is finding financial resources and help for those ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS so I know that they are draining the system and we are paying for them.
    Easier said than done. You probably lived abroad but onAmerican dollars. If you are not aware, according to the economic standards of most third world countries, you were equitable to millionare in the USA.
    If you hate the illegal immigration problem, don't lash out at the immigrants, direct your anger to the elected officials who are putting barriers to comprehensive immigration bill being passed which would a first step towards solving the problem. Ilegal immigrants are just caught in the middle.
  8. by   Euskadi1946
    Wow Tazzi you sound like such a nice person and so caring!!
  9. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from kikuyu
    \

    i am glad you are not a doctor, and i am scared to death even now to think that some nurses who are making life and death decisions think this way. hopefully you won't be tempted to end a patients life by denying them life saving treatment just because they are illegal.

    hope we have no doctors with such mentality.
    [font="comic sans ms"]as a nurse, my job is to provide the best care i can for my patients -- and i do so.

    as a citizen and a taxpayer, i'm entitled to my opinions about how my tax dollars should be spent. hopefully, our doctors are also responsible enough to form opinions as to how their tax dollars should be spent and to act upon those opinions -- in the voting booth. which is where i act upon mine.

    i find it rather insulting that you would assume i would not do my job to the best of my ability because i have some political beliefs with which you seem to disagree.

    i also find it somewhat amusing that you seem to think that doctors are the only ones who make the life and death decisions. let's discuss this again after you've been a nurse for a decade or two.
  10. by   rn/writer
    This post is closed for the time being. It may or may not reopen.

    Food for thought:

    Once again, we have had to close a thread because the expression of strong opinions morphed into personal attacks and inflammatory remarks. This is beyond sad. We are educated adults. We care about our families and our patients. We agree on many things, yet we allow the areas where we think differently to divide us and turn us against each other.

    As in most subjects, the answers are not to be found at the extremes. Turning sick people away at the door is heartless. Taking on an increasing tide of people who operate below the radar until the system crashes is mindless. Neither will serve anyone well.

    In the meantime, we have solved nothing. We have done little but create rancor among ourselves. And we did it while talking about compassion.

    If this thread opens again, or if you find yourself wanting to post on another controversial thread, please keep the following in mind:

    You can state your opinion without going after someone else. Quoting another poster is fine as long as you can refrain from "making it personal."

    Generalizations generally cause problems.

    Critcism is best received when given with kindness.

    It is not necessary to TAKE offense, even when it is intended.

    The best defense might be a good offense on the football field but that's because one side views the other as the enemy. We in this online community should NOT find it so easy to look at each other that way.

    You can tell a thread is going downhill when posters start going off on controversial tangents. In this case, the "students vs. seasoned nurses" wrestling match distracted from the original topic.

    Remember that this is a virtual forum. Very few of us know each other personally. Even so, we may have the power to influence, educate, and encourage each other. That being said, these beneficial exchanges are unlikely to take place if messages are steeped in sarcasm, judgment, and animosity.

    Venting is just that. Opinions are opinions. Neither needs to lead to a wrestling match. To bring things full circle, when you disagree with someone else's opinion, state your own and leave it at that. No need to question their humanity, their intelligence, their experience, or any other aspect of their pedigree.

    When the subject of compassion comes up, make sure you are showing some, even as you criticize others.

    No one is being singled out for criticism. There is plenty of responsibility to go around.

    One last suggestion. When you dash off a post in the heat of high emotion, let it sit for a bit. Then come back and re-read what you have written and see if you'd like to tone it down a notch or two. Taking this extra step is rarely a mistake.






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