If you are drunk, don't drive! - page 4

If you are a nurse, and you drive while you are drunk; the Board of Nursing can suspend your nursing license for good!!! This is hard to believe...but it is true!!!!... Read More

  1. by   jimthorp
    Quote from caroladybelle
    And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China or this topic.

    I'd suggest you and GardenDove pay attention to the dialogue. My statement was in response this:

    Originally Posted by Tweety
    However, many people who get DUIs are alcoholics or at least alcohol abusers, drink and drive often and happen to get caught, and have the potential for job performance error.
    I'll break it down for you. Tweety is saying that the justification for having a DUI affect licensure is, as he opines, that they are alcohol abusers and alcoholics and therefore have the potential for job performance error.

    As a gun owner I also have the potential to maim and kill but it doesn't happen nor does it mean it is likely to happen nor does it mean it will ever happen.

    I would argue that most people could not pick out an alchoholic in a crowd or workplace. They are able to function normally because they have become habituated to the alcohol in their blood, In fact, they could not function without it, that is until they get detoxed.
  2. by   anonymurse
    Quote from newbiern2006
    I don't know about you, but I don't want anybody irresponsible enough (and obviously judgment-impaired enough) to drive drunk to be giving me meds or watching (or worse, not watching) my tele monitor or ... you get the idea.
    Yah.

    Well how about if a peds nurse loses a pt and goes down to the local watering hole with other nurses and has a couple and on the way home gets a DUI?
  3. by   Agnus
    Quote from Tweety
    Very true. But the point wasn't missed. I very clearly was stating how it was here, and how it contradicted with the original poster.
    Yes, I caught your qualifier. And was very conscious of it when I made my remark but felt it still might be useful to speak as I did because
    It is just sometimes in these discussions not everyone stops to think we are often comparing oranges and apples.
  4. by   Tweety
    Quote from Agnus
    Yes, I caught your qualifier. And was very conscious of it when I made my remark but felt it still might be useful to speak as I did because
    It is just sometimes in these discussions not everyone stops to think we are often comparing oranges and apples.
    Good point.
  5. by   Tweety
    Quote from anonymurse
    Yah.

    Well how about if a peds nurse loses a pt and goes down to the local watering hole with other nurses and has a couple and on the way home gets a DUI?
    Needs counseling for her/his very poor judgement and coping skills. A lot of people like to blow off some grief and stress with a little alcohol, but we still have to do it responsibly. Having a bad day, losing a patient and coping with drinking and driving is not something I'm impressed with, nor am I going to look at this person more favorably than the party girl who goes out with friends and drinks and drives after having a good time. They both are driving loaded weapons and both are exercising poor judgement.
  6. by   Tweety
    Quote from jimthorp
    I'd suggest you and GardenDove pay attention to the dialogue. My statement was in response this:



    I'll break it down for you. Tweety is saying that the justification for having a DUI affect licensure is, as he opines, that they are alcohol abusers and alcoholics and therefore have the potential for job performance error.

    As a gun owner I also have the potential to maim and kill but it doesn't happen nor does it mean it is likely to happen nor does it mean it will ever happen.

    I would argue that most people could not pick out an alchoholic in a crowd or workplace. They are able to function normally because they have become habituated to the alcohol in their blood, In fact, they could not function without it, that is until they get detoxed.
    There's nothing wrong with identifying potential problems. In fact that's what we're trying to move towards in nursing a more proactive approach than a reactive approach.

    You're more likely to maim and kill someone that doesn't have a gun. If your daughter was raped and murders and you were under extreme distress then knowing you have guns in the house I might advise you to remove them because of the potential you might harm someone or yourself. But no, just the fact that you have gones is no indication that harm will ever come to anyone, even under severe stress.

    Functioning alcoholics are morely to have work related problems than non-alcoholics. Eventually most of them crash and burn in one way or another. Or they cover it up, or for the most part people cover up for them. They smell the alcohol, gossip behind their back, but don't help them. A DUI is a red flag in many ways.

    But you're right. Alcoholism in rampant in our society and it's hard to spot the functioning alcoholic. This doesn't mean that in some ways they aren't impaired. Yeah they are "normal" and take away the booze they become abnormnal, but still they are impaired. Science proves this.
    Last edit by Tweety on Jan 28, '07
  7. by   Ann RN
    Quote from danh3190
    I don't know...
    What's the point of taking the ability to earn a living away from somebody for something that doesn't necessarily affect their ability to perform their job? I can certainly see it for being intoxicated on the job, diverting drugs, even using drugs (since it's not unreasonable to suspect that they will divert drugs). I could even see losing one's license for drinking a certain number of hours before one's shift (like an airline pilot). All these things directly impact on job performance and patient safety. Of course then we might have to also discipline nurses for not getting enough sleep before their shift or working too many hours in a row (like a trucker). Once we start on that slope anything's possible.

    If it's simply a matter a matter that the nurses should know better, how many nurses smoke? How many are grossly obese? We all do dumb stuff when we should know better.
    If a nurse has the poor judgment to drink and drive, I would question her/his judgment elsewhere. This is just my personal opinion, so please do not attack. I know many nurses that go out after work and drink, then drive home. I'm sorry, but that is just plain irresponsible.

    Ann
  8. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from jimthorp

    I'll break it down for you. Tweety is saying that the justification for having a DUI affect licensure is, as he opines, that they are alcohol abusers and alcoholics and therefore have the potential for job performance error.

    As a gun owner I also have the potential to maim and kill but it doesn't happen nor does it mean it is likely to happen nor does it mean it will ever happen.

    I would argue that most people could not pick out an alchoholic in a crowd or workplace. They are able to function normally because they have become habituated to the alcohol in their blood, In fact, they could not function without it, that is until they get detoxed.

    And let me break down my response to you.

    Someone who drives drunk HAS CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED BAD JUDGEMENT which ENDANGERS OTHERS, along with the potential to maim and harm. This what I feel.

    By your logic, by merely having a nurse's license, you can maim or harm. So no one should have a license.

    It is the demonstration of poor judgement that is the problem.

    You can argue all you want about not being able to pick out the alcoholic in a crowd. One generally cannot pick out a serial killer or a child molestor in a crowd either. You also can't usually spot most domestic violence perpetrators on sight. It does not change the fact that they are criminals, have broken laws, and have damaged others or endangered lives, by using poor judgement. Until they have been/ifthey can be cured or have their disease under control, the public should be protected from them. And that means not permitting them to work in professions where their poor judgement can harm others.

    And anyone that drinks and drives, demonstrates poor behavior.

    A nursing license is not a right, it is a privilege. If an alcoholic wishes to get and hold a license, then they have to work for the privilege by quitting drinking. No ifs, ands or buts.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    As for the pedi nurse that goes out, drinks and drives after losing a patient- that is no exception. THERE IS NO ACCEPTABLE REASON TO DRINK AND DRIVE!!!!!

    As an oncology/HIV nurse, I have watched plenty of good wonderful young people die...in some of the worst conditions imaginable. If you cannot handle it, you see a counselor, you learn to cope. If you find yourself drinking because of it, you need help. And if you drink AND drive, you need to get help, counseling AND change departments. Because do you really want to risk killing several other children after losing one at work.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am really tired of people making excuses for inappropriate behavior. There is NO acceptable reason to get behind the wheel after drinking and every good reason not to. If alcohol is soooo attractive that one cannot do without it and drive afterwards, maybe you need to start nursing yourself before nursing others.
  9. by   newbiern2006
    Quote from anonymurse
    Yah.

    Well how about if a peds nurse loses a pt and goes down to the local watering hole with other nurses and has a couple and on the way home gets a DUI?
    No drinking AND driving, period. Drink but DON'T drive, I don't care - the occasional drink (or even very occasional inebriation, say, at a New Year's Eve party) is not a problem, but for God's sake, get a designated driver or take a cab home - duh! And alcoholism is a BIG problem. I haven't known one yet I'd trust as far as I can throw an elephant - and I've known a whole lot of them - up close and personal - you're barking up the wrong tree if you want any sympathy from me. I watched my beloved, broken-hearted cousin bury her only daughter, a beautiful (inside and out) 24 year old woman because some moron thought it was okay to drive drunk. Quitcherbichin' and knock off the drinking irresponsibly. Irresponsible outside of work, highly likely to be irresponsible at work - you can't hide what you are, and eventually that kind of drinking ruins your brain, and then you're impaired at work whether you've been drinking or not. I watched my father die slowly in an alcoholic dementia, and he was never aware of how impaired he'd become - nobody who drinks to excess on a regular basis has the right to be anywhere near patients.
  10. by   CaLLaCoDe
    [mouse]
    Quote from anonymurse
    Yah.

    Well how about if a peds nurse loses a pt and goes down to the local watering hole with other nurses and has a couple and on the way home gets a DUI?
    [/mouse]

    I think that we as a profession should examine a carte blanche policy such as caught drinking and driving lose your license. We need to consider the circumstances for the person's DUI and not just go about it hastily taking a person's right to practice away from him/her.

    What one does on one's own spare time is his/her business and should not be the business of others to condone or condemn.

    Are we not taught in nursing school to withhold judgement until we consider all the evidence surrounding a patients circumstance? Shouldn't we do the same for our fellow nurse?
  11. by   Lacie
    Quote from TeleRNer

    I think that we as a profession should examine a carte blanche policy such as caught drinking and driving lose your license. We need to consider the circumstances for the person's DUI and not just go about it hastily taking a person's right to practice away from him/her.

    What one does on one's own spare time is his/her business and should not be the business of others to condone or condemn.

    Are we not taught in nursing school to withhold judgement until we consider all the evidence surrounding a patients circumstance? Shouldn't we do the same for our fellow nurse?
    Hmm, well then why does a nurse have to end up in programs such as VRP or under suspension if a pre-employment or random drug screen turns up positive for THC/marijuana use? Ex: your on vacation for a week and at a party smoke a joint. Returning to work a week later are random tested. Your reported to the BON by that employer which in turn you cant work as an RN for a period of time, pay $ for addiction evaluations, pay for weekly or more random ua's, pay $ for continues counseling, attend daily AA/NA meetings, report to a case worker and call in daily to see if you have to pee in a cup? Please dont say it's different because it's an "illegal drug" as Drunk driving is also "illegal". I know of 3 nurses in my 24 year career who have lost due to this very scenerio. So it's ok not to be disciplined for DUI but ok for a positive THC? It doesnt mean they were impaired at work either and were on thier own time also. One of the very nurses I knew also was undergoing chemotherapy and smoked to relieve the side effects of her chemo. She did continue to work as much as her health allowed but was disciplined by the BON for having a positive screen. I'm just pointing out the same could be argued in many other situations but it still happens. The BON's are looking out for Public safety and definitely not for the nurses health and well being nor our ability to continue to make a living.
  12. by   GardenDove
    One time I went out to drink with the CNA after an 8 hr evening shift on a medical unit. I had a pt who had had an AAA repair, with ischemia via the mesenteric artery to her abdominal region, plus She was also a post code and had had some neurological effects from that as well.

    The CNA and I had to do a dressing change on her. She had an enormous cavity in her abdominal region where the ischemia had caused utter necrosis to the tissues. I've never seen anything so horrible. I could visualize her spinal column while I removed the packing during this sterile drsg change with the help of my assistant. The pt was confused, but verbal, and kept telling me that she felt like something was gnawing at her as I accomplished this horrific procedure.

    We went out to a bar and I had a gin and tonic and I smoked a rare cigarette and blew smoke rings.
  13. by   jimthorp
    Quote from caroladybelle
    It is the demonstration of poor judgement that is the problem.

    Drinking excessively alone demonstrates poor judgement. Nurses that get hooked on narcs demonstrates poor judgement, yet are allowed back in nursing after rehab. Nurses who engage in promiscuous unprotected sex demonstrates poor judgement. The list is endless. The fact is, every single human being demonstrates poor judgement many times in their life.

    By virtue of passing the NCLEX, nurses have demonstrated the minimum requirements of licensure, which includes nursing judgement.

    There is no concrete evidence to support your arguement that poor judgement in private life equates to poor judgement on the job.

    Just where do you, et al, propose the line between the workplace and private life be drawn??

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