I snapped - page 4

Well, I have just completed the most hellish evening of work I have ever done in my years of nursing. I went of the deep end, and I am feeling just totally disgusted with myself, I ... Read More

  1. by   l.rae
    Originally posted by mattsmom81
    The situation described is lateral violence at its worst IMO.

    I do hope you will seek some anger management assistance or some counseling, as I read your post I seem to get the opinion you are looking to 'blame' this situation on everything and everybody but yourself. You could have walked away from this, but you chose not to.

    We are expected to be able to control our tempers. We're professionals. I am truly surprised at the responses I am reading on this thread. This will be the first time i truly disagree with a train of thought expressed on this forum. I'm glad I haven't worked with many people who behave like this,...I only recall once, and I immediately resigned and reported the lunatic nurse to the BON, as she was out of control.

    Get some help, Sundowner. Don't believe the people here who have said "it's OK". It's not, and please...posters who inferred it IS OK, get a grip. I repeat, you COULD have walked away from this situation very easily and chose not to.

    Now...I'm a hospital critical care nurse. If what I read above goes on normally at LTC centers, all I can say is no wonder they can't get decent help.
    Gee, did l miss a post somewhere??? l do not recall anyone stating this incident was "OK".....l saw acountability on behalf of Sundowner...and remorse...l saw many posts of disagreement on how the situation was handled including several from Sundowner......l see someone who made a mistake and admitted it and found a ''safe'' place to vent feelings and put it in perspective and get CONSTRUCTIVE feed back...after all, if this is a one time incident and uncharacteristic of the perpetrator...how does making someone feel worse about the situation help?...she was already diciplined by the employer....We can say someone is wrong without finger wagging...and l think this was done eloquently by most posters.....after all.....what is that saying about casting the first stone?????????LR
  2. by   ktwlpn
    Originally posted by Sundowner
    RNPD,



    Some of my biggest issuses as of late have revolved around what we as nurses have to take as far as abuse. I have no problems with the confused smacking me or being nasty, it is out of their controll, but families and oriented patients have become increasingly more abusive towards us and it is getting out of hand. I understand their anguish, but most of them could give a rats azz less about ours. It seems as though the world is aware of the nursing shortage, and it somehow in every aspect is taken out on us. This is where the danger lies, this is where the problem is. Those patients and their families know what we are under and they choose to not care and expect us to do for them what we could normally do for them if we were staffed right.

    What I just ADORE is the patient who is now in long term care, and has two daughters that are nurses and they sit with him all day and all night long........but wont lift a fricking finger. They call you off the floor for every little tiny need. They know you have a time window with meds but insist that mother dear gets her pills at exactly five, Unless its a pain med then you should be able to sneak it in in that hour window you have. They cant seem to rub the lotion on moms feet or back....not a script...just their favorite lilac scented moisterizer that mom loves and makes the room smell nice....they need the cna to do it...or worse they dont like the cna and feel it should be a licensed person to put the cream on. WHAT THE FU8K! How many times have you heard a family member or patient call the staff names? Stupid is the word I have been hearing alot latley.....or my favorite....."where did you get your license?" I actually had a nut case ask me that question when I told her I didnt have an extra tv remote for her dear hubbys tv. (he was in a vegitative state and couldnt use it anyway). The lack of respect and understand towards us is obscene.
    I know exactly how you feel-an unfortunately in most LTC's administration makes us cowtow to these people(especially the pretty private for profit places) no matter how bad staffing is.I think you need a break from it-you do sound a bit burned out and you don't want to flip and do something that could jeopardize your license.I see no problem with the nursing staff setting limits with this type of pt and their s.o.'s and thankfully I work in a facility that backs it's employees 100%.Our DON and our administrator has told more then one totally unreasonable family that "We can assist you in your search for placement for your loved one in another facility that you may find more suitable" Scented lotion is a nice touch-but that cna is needed to feed or change a resident(someone else's mom or dad) down the hall-your mother will get her rub down when she is turned-or with her h.s.care...etc.. We need to advocate for all of our residents,staff and ourselves...and if taking a stand jeopardizes your job then you need to come work with me....after your vacation,of course.As far as the Bertha situation-she physically stopped you from proceeding down the hall with that resident.I understand the point that has been made about physically moving him-yes he has the right to complain but not to disrupt the whole unit and I would have done the same thing and had he been ambulatory would have had security or an orderly step in and persuade him to remove himself from the area...You DON"T have to take that kind of abuse-IMHO>Ya should have slapped the taste right outta her MOUTH.......lol
  3. by   Sleepyeyes
    Originally posted by l.rae


    Gee, did l miss a post somewhere??? l do not recall anyone stating this incident was "OK".....l saw acountability on behalf of Sundowner...and remorse...l saw many posts of disagreement on how the situation was handled including several from Sundowner......l see someone who made a mistake and admitted it and found a ''safe'' place to vent feelings and put it in perspective and get CONSTRUCTIVE feed back...after all, if this is a one time incident and uncharacteristic of the perpetrator...how does making someone feel worse about the situation help?...she was already diciplined by the employer....We can say someone is wrong without finger wagging...and l think this was done eloquently by most posters.....after all.....what is that saying about casting the first stone?????????LR
    Yup. right on L. R.
  4. by   nursegoodguy
    Originally posted by Mattsmom81
    Now...I'm a hospital critical care nurse. If what I read above goes on normally at LTC centers, all I can say is no wonder they can't get decent help.

    What did you say Mattsmom81... I must be reading a little too much into your words "no wonder they can't get decent help" because as a LTC nurse I am just a bit offended by that statement.
    I guess there are never any incidents in hospitals, right? And if I worked in a hospital then I'd automatically be classified as decent help... Now you listen up... I'll tell you something about decent help... I was readmitting a diabetic patient who was in the hospital for only 3 days. As I was doing a skin assessment I note that she had a purple bruise on her side and both of her heals are black! BLACK!
    Incidentally this was not the first patient I had readmitted with pressure ulcers on their heals. Does anyone have any idea what might be the outcome for this patient? How could she have gotten this way in only 3 days... Neglect, that's how!
    Decent help... You give me a Break!
    I take pride in being a better than decent LTC nurse!
    Sure I guess as Mario said, as the nurse you could send an aid home for doing a less than adequate job... That would've really made for a great night wouldn't it! You better have good documentation about what they weren't doing and some back up help to do their work... I mean if you have an aid working a 3rd double then you probably can't afford to send anyone home or the patients will get No care...
    A better idea would be to acknowledge how hard they are working and to give them a hand as you did, then hold them accountable for their work.
    In my experience, you develop a much better working relationship if you show them that you respect them and you care, and it will have a definite impact on the quality of care delivered to the patients.
    You gotta work with all kinds of people and sometimes you help to develope them into a good worker... What is the key word here? Experience!
    Sundowner, you really strike me as a caring thoughtful person not someone prone to violent outbursts... Don't let a few people here convince you to seek therapy for an isolated incident. As members of the human race we have lots of emotions...
    Besides, people like Bertha try to push your buttons and it is difficult to find the appropriate words and actions when a situation arises. Sounds like Bertha got just what she wanted, a rise out of someone and you gained a valuable learning experience!
  5. by   Sundowner
    Mattsmom,
    I understand how easily misinterpritations are on boards like these. It is so very easy for one person to achieve a different message from a post than another person would.
    It seems as though you felt from my postings that I attempt to blame someone els for my behavior, but I assure you that I certainly do not. I have hashed this incident over and over in my brain and never once did I come up with any reason to justify my actions. I have simply been trying to understand why I did what I did.

    Last year I spent four days in t he hospital due to an allergic reaction to a spider bite. The four days that I was there were hell and I was stressed to my limits. Let me tell you that I requested tylenol on my second nights stay for a headache........six hours later it was brought to me.....The K--pad for my foot....never happend though it was ordered....a frickin pillow arrives for me the next morning after I requested it......bloodwork that was ordered....never done.....had to get it on my own after discharge. Of course my insurance company sent me home cause THEY felt I needed discharged. If I were elderly, I would have been sent to LTC to recieve my three more weeks of IV antibiotics. The problem then you see would have been that I would have been stuck on a floor in ltc with a bunch of acute pts that have been discharged from the hospital well before they should have.....all of whom are stressed out enough already because they got such crap care from the hospital. Now who takes the brunt of their anger? Its not the hospital nursing staff who turns them out so untimley and never treats the whole patient, just the acute specific problem/problems that lands them there.....no.....it would be us. Now, don't misunderstand me, this is not at the nursing communities fault....this is strictly business...money making business at the expense of peoples saftey and lives. Tonight for example, I admited a woman who is on a heprin drip and required pt inrs drawn Q2.......we are not equipped to do that....but the money machine rolls on and someones wallet is fat, and she was in this facility for no more than six hours and should have had 2 draws....when I left she had only had one done and we were waiting for the lab to come and get the other.
    Please try and refrain from speaking poorly of LTC when you have no idea what goes on and what we go through and what we have to deal with when we get sent one of your neglected train wrecks.

    I think we all are aware that the situation I described earlier with Bertha was just incredibly wrong. I didnt post here to somehow obtain justification for the incident from my peers, or be told I was right, I posted this here to obtain the viewpoints and feedback from my peers, vent my frustration at myself for what I had done and perhaps a little empathy from the people I know would understand. I posted this incident in the hopes that I would gain the feedback from my peers that would give me insight and inable me to see different views of the situation and help me learn from it. I also thought that perhaps the incident would be of some sort of value to us as nurses, perhaps we could all learn from. But I guess over in critical care these problems or potential problems would not exist for the critical care nurse is exempt from the stresses of LTC...where all the good help is. Those patients and their families start with you and they end with me. 80 percent of the time, we are their last stop, there is no going home, they know this and reality sets in and their stress is tenfold, we deal with the guilt ridden family, the angry patient.....you see half of it if even, we get the real ****. Dont put yourself up on a pedistal, because in my eyes we are all in the same crapping dingy of a boat that is barley afloat. Not your fault and not mine.
    Your stresses are completely different than they are for us LTC folks, and untill you see first hand whats going on out there dont throw those stones.

    OH, and I think that one might get the idea that posters here have defended or condoned this behavior of mine simply due to the fact that most of us have wanted to very badly at one time or another....beat the crap out of a co-worker. I used to often take V.O. slips and put certain nurses that were getting on my nerves names on them and write an order as follows "admin slap to the face Q2hrs and prn". I would give them to my supervisor to take them off. She would chuckle when she came across them and we would dream that it could be done.

    As far as me and therapy go.......I dont think so. My therapy begins and ends here. You may wish to check the horse you are riding on.....if you look closely I think you may note that it isnt so high off the ground.

    The incident that took place is not the normal in Ltc. I still cant decide exactly what provoked me so. Was it the facility or Bertha or a combo of both. There was alot of tension in that place. The point is moot now anyway, it is done and over. It may make you all feel better to know that I did schedule myself an appointment with my Dr. to have my hormone levels checked!

    Am I burnt out? No. Am I disgusted and distraught with how corperate companies make life altering decisions for people that need healthcare? Hell yeah. They are pushing the envelope big time and I often wonder when its gonna break.
    Will I contiune to work and do my best to provide people with quality care despite the stuffed shirts. You bet.
    Last edit by Sundowner on Jun 20, '02
  6. by   Sundowner
    OH....I almost forgot the most important thing!!!

    I wanted to thank you all so much for helping me put this all into perspective. Each and every one of you have really helped me out here with your understanding and insight. YOU guys rock!

    I really hesitated to post this incident because I was just so ashamed of myself, but then I thought whats a little shame among my peers? LOL! I decided it would be good to post my nightmare and get outside perspective, I was right.

    Thanks so much gang for helping me sort this out, I am so glad you are all here!

    What have we learned???? dont threaten to beat the bejesus out of a coworker, even if she is an *******! Invest in a b0-bo doll instead.
  7. by   RNforLongTime
    Sundowner,

    You are welcome! I find that this board is a very good and cheap form of therapy and stress relief. There is almost always somebody on the boards who's had the same or similar experiences.

    Good Luck!

    Kelly
  8. by   nursegoodguy
    Sundowner, You Go Girl!
    Wow, Talk about a verbal face slapping... I only wish I could've said it so eloquently!
    Thank you for providing me with the learning experience!
    I got 4 hours sleep last night for being ticked at the self righteous attitudes of some of the posters on this board with regards to your post... Now today I go in and get report from my own version of "Bertha" hmmmm how will I handle the situation... I think the first thing I'm gonna do is walk in and just SLAP her right across the kisser! LOL just kidding...Ughhh I gotta get ready!
    I am so proud of how you've handled the posts on this board with your last post!
  9. by   Sleepyeyes
    Very nice response Sundowner.

    LTC is a different breed of cat, and I speak from experience. I was a night shift supervisor in addition to having 12 years' experience as a CNA, and one year as an LPN. I've worked all shifts, as both staff and agency in LTC.

    One more piece of info: In our state, you couldn't have sent the overtired CNA home; we have to keep staffing levels up, and the facility couldn't give a hoot how many doubles she pulled, or how many rounds she did, as long as they had a WB (warm body).

    So my responses were based on experience with LTC. You sound like a fine nurse. Get some rest, do some less stressful work (when I'm totally "fried" I like to do Hospice for agency--it's one-on-one care, and I get paid pretty good for it), check out your thyroid, Fe, and blood sugar, and get back as soon's you can, cause you're definitely needed! :kiss

    and oh, one more thing....



    don't let 'em run all over ya!
    (I'm just noticing, this is the 3rd place I've posted this silly smilie....purpose is to make us SMILE....ok????)
    Last edit by Sleepyeyes on Jun 20, '02
  10. by   mattsmom81
    Sorry to disagree with so many. I must say as I reread the original post, I still feel the same way.

    IMO there is no excuse for acting out on the job...now granted, BOTH these nurses were wrong, but the fact that we don't like someone doesn't make it OK to jump in the fray...no matter 'who started it...my aren't we childish? ) and reciprocate ...either physically or verbally.

    I dodged a rollodex that was thrown at me once by an out of control nurse. I walked away, called my DON, de-escalating the violent outburst. I think that's the best way to handle these things...but that's my opinion.....as Peeps said, perhaps we SHOULD provide boxing gloves...

    Do we all get irked once in awhile? Of course. Doesn't give us the right to forget we're professionals, IMHO.

    Those who are stressed to the breaking point can seek help on their own, or they can wait until it is mandated. I would choose the former.

    Getting angry at ME for giving my response on a public forum is unlikely to help either. Those who are angry at ME (yeah, project the blame a little more) ...well, go ahead if it makes you feel better...I've been in the game a long time and berlieve me I can take it.

    Peace!
  11. by   RNPD
    "Tonight for example, I admited a woman who is on a heprin drip and required pt inrs drawn Q2.......we are not equipped to do that...."-Sundowner

    I am curious as to why a patient who is so unstable as to require a heparin drip would be discharged from the hospital to a LTC facility. Is this common? Also did you mean to say that aPTTs needed to be drawn? PT/INRs are used to check for Coumadin.
  12. by   Brownms46
    I agree with a lot of what you have written Mattsmom, although I seriously doubt that I would have been able to walk away from someone throwing something at me! That wouldn't have went over too well! I'm seriously not sure what I would have done....but I know if it was on a bad day...well..I don't even want to think about it.! Although I disagreed with grabbing someone's arm...I do believe the action being discussed...was one that Sundowner knew and understood was wrong! And yes you're right...disliking that nurse or anyone...doesn't give anyone the right to touch them inproperly! But I just think this had more to do with the stress she was under, (not excusing anything here). But I have said things I truly regret afterwards....and God help me me because...it might just happen again. I'm a very emotional being, and I just think some people handle things differently...no matter how professional they are. I can think of many times, when I wish I had reacted differently to a situation.

    There is another thing I do agree also with. I do think that by actually letting the situation get out of hand so far as to place her hands on someone, it might be a good suggestion to think about some anger management. I have had to deal with anger management, and believe me I'm a long ways away from the hot head I used to be. That is...if anyone who's read my posts in the middle of one of my ummmm debates ...I have decided to call them...can actually believe that..:chuckle! Nursing has also been a help to me...in controlling what I say, and do. My lips are constantly being bitten into..:chuckle!! But there are times, when I should just let things go, rather than speak my mind! And that is one I'm still wrestling with!
  13. by   Sleepyeyes
    "Tonight for example, I admited a woman who is on a heprin drip and required pt inrs drawn Q2.......we are not equipped to do that...."-Sundowner

    "I am curious as to why a patient who is so unstable as to require a heparin drip would be discharged from the hospital to a LTC facility. Is this common? Also did you mean to say that aPTTs needed to be drawn? PT/INRs are used to check for Coumadin."


    They try, RNPD, they try; you should see some of the patients we've had to deal with. All is takes is a real putz in admissions and you're stuck.

    Additionally, a lot of these folks are starting Coumadin prior to DC home, and so the heparin runs until PT/INR levels are therapeutic--depends on the doc. They could also want a heparin level, of course.

    However, none of the facilities I worked in ever took anyone on a Heparin drip, due to the extremely slow lab response. That is, they would draw at 6 am; we'd get "stats" back the next day.

    We had many people on TPN, though. And you can't refuse the patient if you're in charge of the whole building, ya know?
    Last edit by Sleepyeyes on Jun 20, '02

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