I did something stupid... no, embarrassing and stupid - page 6

Okay, first I want to make it clear that this is not a thread about religion. Please, let's not discuss our personal views of religion, that isn't my topic. Here is my problem. I have two... Read More

  1. by   Tinkerbell2
    Quote from susannyc
    something from her ... frie... sist... umm... suddenly I drew a total blank at how they would refer to one another. I finally blurted out "co-wives!" Oh geez, what an idiot I am. The stuttering and stammering on my part was not intentional, I was actually looking for a respectful term and I wasn't

    I am in serious need of a lesson in culture here. I point blank admitted this to the woman on the phone. She said she would see what she could find. I was looking for something to read and understand their point of view. She said she would do some checking and let me know.

    I'm in NYC, and have never been in this situation. However, on a TV documentary on this topic several years ago, I did hear one plural wife refer to another plural wife as her "sister wife". Perhaps this would be a term you could use? Here, we call people in alternative relationships "domestic partners", "life partners" or "significant others." However, the "domestic partner" and "life partner" designations are usually reserved for same gender relationships.

    Susan in NYC
    AZMichelle

    I don't think that there is a tactile term for the situtation. "Co-wives" seems to be a good one to me. I do not know about Arizona, but in in most states Polygamy is illegal; and as for religion --Mormons - The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints abolished Polygamy when it became illegal. Anyone in their church that is caught practicing it is excommunicated immediately. I, personally, find it a form of exploitation to women.
  2. by   Fiona59
    A branch of this sect/cult is in Bountiful, British Columbia. They were on the news last night explaining that they do not exploit women. Yup, marrying your daughter off at 14 is an instrisic part of Canadian Culture. Mismanaging your educational funding is normal and so is running off your teenage sons....
  3. by   Tinkerbell2
    Quote from AzMichelle
    I know. Actually since she was clearly open to educating me I asked if I could ask a question. I asked about the little girls. I said what little I know about this is that little adolescent girls are taken from their family and married off to old men. Was that true?

    She claims that although it is true the girls are not forced to do this against their will. It is with their full permission.

    Can a 14 year old little girl make that kind of decision?

    I don't know, religion issues concern me. My bottom line is that I am going to be dealing with these folks more and more and I really need an education here. The gal I spoke to today suggested I take a trip and see for myself. I'm very tempted to do just that however I've never been good at keeping my thoughts and opinions to myself. If I see something I feel is dead wrong... well, you know.

    I don't understand one mega issue. If these folks were in downtown Phoenix all the adults would be in jail and the children in foster care. I don't understand why it is permitted to marry these little girls off to older men just because they are in Colorado City. There is so much I don't understand.

    My request to learn more really is sincere. I need to learn more about their culture so I don't offend by mistake.
    These girls are basically brainwashed into this type of lifestyle from early childhood. How else could you explain this ? No 14 year old year in a healthy mental state would throw their childhood and youth away to share a bed and life with numerous other women and become the breeding cow for some religious fanatic/sex maniac. Using religion as an excuse to commit such acts is repulsive. It is a form of slavery.
  4. by   CHATSDALE
    the most disgusting thing i ever saw was a thing on tv about a plural family in which the 'father' was explaining that he named all children born in the same year with the same first initial...and then they showed him sitting on his fat behind while a group of daughters sang about how much they loved him

    and muggy...the term 'indian giver' came from the way the federal government gave land to various tribes 'forever' and then if gold was discovered or white settlers wanted the land for farming or ranching then forever ended real quick
  5. by   RPCV
    A good book to read is "Under the Banner of Heaven" - goes into the history of the LDS church (even though officaly these plural marriage sects are not recognized as a part of the church), it's culture, dogma, and leadership. I find it helpful in my work setting, most of my co workers are LDS and very religious. Just be careful - a lto fo them hate the book and I "mysteriously" have copies of the book of Mormon on my chair some days.

    I have a very dear friend who did rural health care nursing for these plural wife families. Her philiosohpy - children and women need care iregardless of their lifestyle. You can't judge. She loved her job. They respected her. Kids got good health care.
  6. by   hock1
    I sincerely believe people know when they're being talked down to or insulted. This woman knew the term co-wife was not deragatory esp when she couldn't come up with a term herself. I see no difference between a man who puts a bun in several girlfriends vs multiple wives. Why is one okay and the other not? I may not agree with other family-style units, but I always choose to treat them with respect and dignity.

    As far as religious reasons for child marriage...I really believe this goes along with the obiedience factor and preventing illegitamate births. If the man is in his late twenties or early thirties; and the wife is young, then he becomes her new authority/father figure. She is more apt to look to him for advice throughout the marriage like a child to a parent. This would make sense in cultures/religions that lean toward female submission. If the girl believes this is good and right behavior, she will never question or understand it's "perceived" immorality by others. Most parents with this beliefs go through great strides to find the best man for their daughter. They absolutely will not marry off a beloved daughter to a pedophile. Every good parent wants what is best for their child. The key is consent.
  7. by   Reborn
    Quote from AzMichelle
    These are a couple of huge differences between the Amish and my folks. My folks use a LOT of welfare dollars, a huge number of them. They refer to it as 'bleeding the beast.' *WE* are the beast.

    Makes it hard to care as much when you take that into account. I have to let all that go when I am talking to them. The fact that my tax dollars are going to pay for this, I am the one working hard on their behalf and yet, I'm the bad guy ... or one of them anyway.
    Yes, there are many different "groups" of people with different "lifestyles" all across the country who are living on welfare and medicaid dollars paid in by those of us that work and care for them.
    But if we condone a society of political correctness where everything goes, then I guess that's the price we pay for it.
    I mean, if we don't draw the line anywhere, then we CAN'T draw the line anywhere.
    I think open honesty in communication is best, my faith teaches me to love my neighbor, but I don't have to love their "lifestyle" to care for them respectfully and compassionately.
    If we are not sure how to address people, I think it's best, as has been mentioned, to just ask for their preference in obviously sincere way. Most people recognize sincerity.
  8. by   JessicaInOr
    Quote from Reborn
    ...But if we condone a society of political correctness where everything goes, then I guess that's the price we pay for it.
    I mean, if we don't draw the line anywhere, then we CAN'T draw the line anywhere.
    But we aren't living in a society of 'everything goes' ... not by a long shot. We have laws in place specifically so that everything does not go. We have policemen arresting people every single day for prostitution, selling drugs to children, those who rape, those who murder... the list seems absolutely endless. So we do draw the lines.

    I think it is easy to blame society as a whole for problems of a few. And it is the few that causes the most problems. It is not the fault of society that John Smith sells pot or steals from others. Personally, I call that bad parenting a good part of the time. People leave the upbringing of their children to society and then when they don't turn out well they blame society. That isn't how it works.

    I think another frustration for those who actually do believe anything goes is really a religious issue. They can't fathom how someone could ... oh I don't know... live with someone outside of marriage. To *that* specific person it may seem as though anything goes but in reality, the practice merely ruffles the feathers of those who choose a religion where this is considered sinful. That just isn't 'anything goes'. That is a difference of opinion on right vs. wrong.

    However, when it comes to these girls in Colorado City, it is a shame. A senseless shame. Anything really does go there, when children are involved all the rules change. I still wish I knew how they get away with it. I know how they do on a local level, all those in a position of power live the same lifestyle. But the state of Arizona or the federal gov't... what is stopping them dead in their tracks to save these children? If someone would act on this in an appropriate manner they would be adored by a good majority of the population. Political folks are always looking for something to make them look good. Saving the lives and futures of these little adolescent girls would be a great thing for their career. Yet ... nothing. Absolutely nothing.
  9. by   JessicaInOr
    Quote from RPCV
    I have a very dear friend who did rural health care nursing for these plural wife families. Her philiosohpy - children and women need care iregardless of their lifestyle. You can't judge. She loved her job. They respected her. Kids got good health care.
    A gal I work with now used to work on behalf of these ladies and children too but too many of the men wouldn't allow their wives to go there for medical care. She's a woman and they wanted someone smart so they found a male medical provider.
  10. by   pricklypear
    Quote from AzMichelle
    A gal I work with now used to work on behalf of these ladies and children too but too many of the men wouldn't allow their wives to go there for medical care. She's a woman and they wanted someone smart so they found a male medical provider.
    I'd bet those husbands don't like their wives and daughters being exposed to many of the rest of us - a male practitioner may be less likely to find aspects of their lifestyle abusive. That's probably very sexist of me, I know.
    Last edit by Nurse Ratched on Apr 22, '05
  11. by   Reborn
    Quote from AzMichelle
    .

    It is not the fault of society that John Smith sells pot or steals from others. Personally, I call that bad parenting a good part of the time. People leave the upbringing of their children to society and then when they don't turn out well they blame society. That isn't how it works.
    On this I totally agree. I did correctional nursing for 4 yrs and the prison's are full of the results of this kind of "background", caused by the parents "lifestyle choices" and "parenting styles".

    But as to the drawing lines, well, if there are no moral absolutes, then who can decide where to draw the lines?

    With "minor" children, one would assume. So, I'm very interested to know, what are the laws where these "families" live, and how are they circumventing them, if they are? (If that was explained and I overlooked it, please forgive the question)

    As nurses, while on duty, we must care for and respect cultural differences, even to those who have broken the law, or have been accused of it. But on our own time, we can be activists against those things we don't agree with.
  12. by   pricklypear
    Quote from Reborn

    As nurses, while on duty, we must care for and respect cultural differences, even to those who have broken the law, or have been accused of it. But on our own time, we can be activists against those things we don't agree with.
    I agree we must respect cultural differences, and even care for those who have broken the law, but are we not required, by law, to report suspected abuse? Especially child abuse? I'm not implying that all the young girls who are being married off are being "abused," but what if a nurse treating one of them suspects emotional abuse?
  13. by   Reborn
    Oh yes, we are definitely obligated, not only legally but ethically,
    (notice I didn't say morally, can't impose our own moral standard on anyone else, right?)
    to report suspected abuse, but as defined by law, not of our own judgement. That's why I was curious as to what exactly were the laws in the state where this is happening.
    It's a heartbreaking situation, as are so many now-a-days.(2 Timothy 3:1-9)

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