Hurricane Irma: Are per diem nurses USUALLY required to work during a hurricane/disaster?

Nurses General Nursing

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Hey guys!

I'm not a nurse, but I am part of the nursing staff as a PCA. I have only been working in a hospital for a year, so I'm not sure what is usual or custom.

As the title suggests, I am located in South Florida and hurricane Irma may clobber us this weekend. If it is still a category 4 or 5 hurricane by Friday morning I have decided to evacuate my loved ones out of state. However, the hospital I work for is telling ALL per diem workers that we are REQUIRED to come to the hospital to work during the hurricane lock down.

So my question is, is that usual for a hospital? To require the PER DIEM employees to come in? There was a hurricane list made up in advance saying which full time workers would have to come in and who would be part of the "after" team, but I was never aware that per diem workers needed to as well.

I just wanted to know if my director/superiors are pulling one over on me by telling my it's required when it actually may not be what usually happens. My hospital has been known to lie to employees when it suits them.

Sorry for the long post, thank you for any answers in advance.

Specializes in LTC and Pediatrics.
That's usually covered in the employee handbook. If you're full time, you're pretty much expected to bend until you break as your employer sees fit (per "the needs of the unit" as they love to say). When you're per diem, you have very few benefits, but very little commitment is required of you in exchange.

Wonder if natural disasters are in the handbook? No, per diem employees are usually available to work when called to work. Nor did the OP say anything about another job, which would close down during a hurricane.

Not sure where you live, but it seems you may not be in a hurricane area where a Cat 5+ is approaching. Emergency services, hospitals usually don't close down unless they are ordered to evacuate.

Quite possibly, but sometimes I think the moral outweighs the other.

That's where it gets tricky. The employment issue is easy, but after you throw in all the other stuff it gets complicated fast. We're kind of debating two different issues, but I just realized it.

Wonder if natural disasters are in the handbook? No, per diem employees are usually available to work when called to work. Nor did the OP say anything about another job, which would close down during a hurricane.

Not sure where you live, but it seems you may not be in a hurricane area where a Cat 5+ is approaching. Emergency services, hospitals usually don't close down unless they are ordered to evacuate.

Natural disaster protocols are usually in the handbook from what I've seen, but I've only had three nursing jobs, so maybe it varies?

I've never known per diem employees to be easily available when called, although they occasionally are. I've gone in and worked an extra shift once in the past year ...and I've stayed a few hours late a few times to help get the day shift off to a decent start.

I don't know if the OP has another job. I'm per diem and have no second job, but that's not really an issue when it comes to employment obligations for per diem staff.

Yes, hospitals and other emergency services may not close down, but that does not mean that every employee will be available or required to be available.

This isn't about PTO or other such things.

Now there's need for that. I trust you can recognize the analogy I made.

The PD worker chose that position for a reason. It doesn't matter if you or I like his/her personal reason or not. The position the PD worker chose gives up benefits in exchange for freedom. Period. You've done the job, so have I. You know that's the way it is for many PD employees.

Your concern for those experiencing disaster situations is noble; I mean that sincerely. Personally I'd just volunteer. But that is immaterial. The PD employee (under the most basic agreement) is a day laborer. The commitment is over at the end of the day. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Now are there moral obligations to humanity? Yes, I believe so. That's why I go in and help and why probably all of us arguing about this have gone in/stayed over/given above and beyond over the years. All of that is separate from the PD's employment obligation.

You guys - It seems like sensitivities were provoked because of the "family" thing. No one has said or would say that a PD's family is somehow more important than FT/PTers' families. That doesn't even make sense. What was said, rather, is that "family obligations" is the reason the OP chose a PD position to begin with. Realize then, that when explaining a desire to not be "compelled" to work beyond their agreement, "family" is going to be that reason, because "family" is the reason they chose a reduced work commitment in the first place. There really is nothing more sinister to it.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
It's just not ideal because my family is evacuating and we only have one car. So I'm going to have them drop me off before they head to Georgia. But I understand them needing people to work. The way they went about it was rude though. Probably because everyone is trying to get out of working.

What does having only one car have to do with anything? It's not like you'll be leaving work to pop over to Panera for lunch or anything. The safest place for your car is out of the path of the hurricane.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
YES! This. It really rubs me the wrong way, too, that ANY ONE nurse's family or commitments are more important than another's regardless of their employment status. WHO will relieve the exhausted full/part-timers who work 24 hours' straight after all?

Interesting that nurses are volunteering to fly down to Houston to give the nurses there a break after Harvey -- but folks in Irma's path believe that they're exempt from helping out because they're per diem????

It makes just about as much sense as the nurse who doesn't believe it's "worth her life" to drive to work in the snow . . . and that thread is about two months away from starting!

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.
Interesting that nurses are volunteering to fly down to Houston to give the nurses there a break after Harvey -- but folks in Irma's path believe that they're exempt from helping out because they're per diem????

Volunteer vs Compulsory

Volunteer vs Compulsory

Calling vs Job?

Volunteer vs Compulsory

Volunteer vs Compulsory

Think about it... all the emergency agency nurse contracts pull way more $$$ over PD or FT even with OT.

If I work for your hospital 1-2 days a month can you declare I owe you all my time when SHTF or you'll "fire" me? Put that in the policy manual... go ahead... do it. It's legal. And people will sign up for that, many without reading. And many will quit when those chips get called in.

Can you just decide that is the new policy? Yes, in most states... beauty of at-will... but many would quit over it. You are also welcome to go out and draft random nurses from the street, tell them "hey you are hired, and mandated to work starting now because it is a disaster!" I suggest offering enough money and you'll have takers.

Think about it... all the emergency agency nurse contracts pull way more $$$ over PD or FT even with OT.

Exactly, to the tune of 3x as much base for disaster relief. It's also for "relief", meaning after the worst part (winds anyway) is over. Hospitals will have running water and power long before residential areas too. During the aftermath of 2004-2005 storms when we sometimes went weeks without power, work was a welcome relief from the heat. Working during a storm was pure hell. All of our agency nurses cancelled on us and we had 10+ patients per nurse and a CNA to share for the entire unit...and we were not even a direct hit.

I was per diem last winter when a major blizzard hit NYC (29.5 inches!!) and I was still considered essential staff and required to be at work.

Specializes in Maternal-Child, Women's Health.

In my coastal Georgia hospital, there was a list prepared well in advance of hurricane season, listing the following:

Team A: Group who would come to hospital and work for 24-48 hours, so Team B could make family and home preparations. Team A was free to evacuate when Team B arrived.

Team B: Group who would work the duration of the hurricane

Team C: Group who comes back as soon as roads are open (often having to show hospital letter and/or nursing license to get through road closures) to relieve Team B. They work until Team A can return and then the normal schedule is gradually assumed again.

All full timers were on the list, no part time or per diem. Alot of it was liability for anyone is the building, and there not being a whole heckuva lot of room for extra people and supplies would get low if delivery was hindered. Everyone knew which list they were on, and had the opportunity to sign up for the team of their choice by seniority. As people left and new hires were added, seniority changed, and the list was revised. Believe it or not, this worked quite well and per diem was not needed. I was never asked as a per diem to staff a hurricane. I had a full time job elsewhere that I had to staff and that was who got my energies.

I would bet that most Florida hospitals have a similar plan in place, but perhaps some have gotten a little loose because hurricanes have not hit there in the recent past, and now the list needed to be operationalized and may have been a complete surprise to people. I wish everyone the best, and hope that everyone is safe and if at work, can continue to do our jobs well and keep patients safe in the storm.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

As perdiem I made more money. No I did not have benefits, but I made more an hour than the "regulars" beside me. It never occurred to me I was exempt in a human catastrophe.

Obviously, that belief is not shared by many.

YOUR family and livelihood are NOT more important than that of the next person just because you are perdiem.

That's all I am saying.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Now there's need for that. I trust you can recognize the analogy I made.

The PD worker chose that position for a reason. It doesn't matter if you or I like his/her personal reason or not. The position the PD worker chose gives up benefits in exchange for freedom. Period. You've done the job, so have I. You know that's the way it is for many PD employees.

Your concern for those experiencing disaster situations is noble; I mean that sincerely. Personally I'd just volunteer. But that is immaterial. The PD employee (under the most basic agreement) is a day laborer. The commitment is over at the end of the day. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Now are there moral obligations to humanity? Yes, I believe so. That's why I go in and help and why probably all of us arguing about this have gone in/stayed over/given above and beyond over the years. All of that is separate from the PD's employment obligation.

You guys - It seems like sensitivities were provoked because of the "family" thing. No one has said or would say that a PD's family is somehow more important than FT/PTers' families. That doesn't even make sense. What was said, rather, is that "family obligations" is the reason the OP chose a PD position to begin with. Realize then, that when explaining a desire to not be "compelled" to work beyond their agreement, "family" is going to be that reason, because "family" is the reason they chose a reduced work commitment in the first place. There really is nothing more sinister to it.

My concern lies with the posts saying children need their parents. Of course, they do. So did mine. So do others'. EVERYONE has loved ones to worry about, not just prn employees.

It behooves us to prepare ahead of time for disasters and what we would do for our family/loved ones and pets BEFORE such disaster happens. At least with hurricanes one has days to prepare. If an earthquake strikes, that is bad enough where I live, I have 20 MINUTES to figure out how not to drown in a tsumani. No advance notice is given for earthquakes at all. Minutes (or less), not days/weeks.

We each live in areas inherent to certain natural disasters. It's on us to think ahead what to do when/if they strike.

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