How to differentiate between epilepsy and pseudo-seizures
- 0Apr 8, '09 by LovebugLPNI have seizure disorder (according to 3 neurologists) but getting the correct dx was a hard thing that took a lot of time and testing. It has never shown up on an EEG (and I have had 3 of 'em) and every MRI and PET etc has shown nothing. What I have always wondered is how can doctors diagnose one person with epilepsy and the next person with pseudo-seizures when both people have negative EEGs? What happens if they stop someones meds for epilepsy because they believe they are having pseudo-seizures and they are really have seizures that really just never show up on tests? How do they make they make the dx with no concrete proof?
- 3Apr 8, '09 by nrsang97If someone is faking seizures they come to almost immediately afterwards. They have muscle tone during the post ictal period too, often times we will lift their arm and see if it falls or if they can hold it up. If they can hold the arm up usually they are faking since a post ictal patient would let their arm just fall. They will stop when they are exposed to ammonia sniffer things.
I had one pt who was pretending to seize, the phone rang, she talked to whoever had called, then hung up, and continued to seize. She had even let the docs intubate her before. We got her to stop by telling her we were going to do a painful procedure.
- 3Apr 8, '09 by LovebugLPNPseudo-seizures aren't always people who are "pretending to seize". I actually wanted to have a dx of pseudo-seizures because it meant having my life back and my driver's license. All the neurologists said you couldn't tell someone having a true seizure from someone having a pseudo-seizure unless it was someone truly faking it. Their are a lot of people who have pseudo-seizures who truly believe they are having a seizure and don't have any control over it. I was just wondering how if every test came back normal, as can be the truth in either case, do they make the dx of seizure disorder.Last edit by LovebugLPN on Apr 8, '09
- 2Apr 8, '09 by Spidey's mom GuideQuote from LovebugLPNI think you get the diagnosis of epilepsy or seizure disorder if you have more than one seizure. I had one adult-onset seizure 4 years ago and the neurologist and my regular physician said that 60% of adult-onset seizures have no perceivable cause and no more seizures. They don't medicate for just one seizure. However, I had another one 3 months later. My EEG's and MRI's were normal. So, now I'm on Tegretol.Pseudo-seizures aren't always people who are "pretending to seize". I actually wanted to have a dx of pseudo-seizures because it meant having my life back and my driver's license. All the neurologists said you couldn't tell someone having a true seizure from someone having a pseudo-seizure unless it was someone truely faking it. Their are a lot of people who have pseudo-seizures who truely believe they are having a seizure and don't have any control over it. I was just wondering how if every test came back normal, as can be the truth in either case, do they make the dx of seizure disorder.
As to pseudo-seizure . . . that is another whole ball of wax, so to speak, isn't it?
Unlike epileptic seizures, PNES do not result from an abnormal electrical discharge from the brain; they are a physical manifestation of a psychological disturbance. They are a type of conversion disorder or, more broadly, a type of somatoform disorder, and they are usually involuntary. PNES can also result from voluntary faking (feigning), as in malingering and factitious disorder. This cause is thought to be rare, but it is difficult to prove.
- 0Apr 8, '09 by Penguin67When I worked Pediatric ED, we had a "repeat customer" teen who liked to fake seizures at school. We all knew her. When she came to the ambulance bay, we'd break an ammonia capsule, and she'd immediately come to and be combative trying to move the capsule away. She did finally get the psych consult that she needed.
- 0Apr 8, '09 by ohmeowzer RNoh we had a pt who faked seziures , she would stand up and walk see one of us and lay down and start a fake seziure. one nurse got so fed up with her fake sezuires the next time she pulled this. he said to her " knock it off and get up off the floor" the doc was standing there and started laughing. the girl layed on the floor for a few minutes jerking , and when she saw the nurse and doc laughing at her , she got up and walked to bed. she jumped right up and it was so funny, i almost peed my pants. the docc said " your going home , goodbye" and she left very fast escorted by security. before she left she said " one more shot of ativan please, the nurse said " goodbye"... we knew she was faking and just there for the drugs, and finally someone just got fed up with her nonsense.
- 7Apr 8, '09 by miko014Quote from nrsang97Fake seizures and psuedo-seizures are not the same thing. If she was faking, she was faking. People get those terms mixed up a lot. A pseudo-seizure is a real seizure that the person cannot control, but the cause is not neurological - usually it's psychological. There is difference between that and someone who is intentionally faking a seizure.Lovebug,
I was only sharing my experience with pseudo seizures. The ones I had seen they were truly faking seizures.
You can get your license back as long as you are seizure free for a period of time, however I can't remember how long that is.