Hey, Managers! What's up with the "weeding out" of good nurses? - page 9

Recently there's been a spate of write-ups I've heard about that are basically bogus. Minor infractions that no one else would get written up over. I'm furious. On the surface, it doesn't seem to... Read More

  1. by   ythomas
    I cannot believe this is happening. i am a manager of an obstetrical unit in Canada and I could not afford to lose any senior nurses. We don't have the new grads to replace the nurses leaving because of retirement. I agree many managers tend to harp on the negatives and rarely give positive feedback. i am a new manager less than one year and I have worked to people like that and never want to be one. When I have to speak with staff about concerns I always try to tell them that we will work toghether to fix the problems. I am truly sorry for your difficulties because it sounds like a very awful place to work.
  2. by   moodychick
    Angie, you are so right! We got a new manager last year, and you would not believe the good nurses she badgered until they quit!!! She was always calling them to the office; and funny, the old manager never had the slightest problem with any of these nurses; and neither did the rest of the staff. One nurse would speak her mind if she thought a doc was wrong and a patient could be jeopardized. But, aren't we supposed to do that as patient advocates? The old manager was wonderful and got along with all of us. She would work with you if you had a problem. I'm sure that's why she was gotten rid of.
  3. by   sayitgirl
    I think that new nurses should be helped along the way, not shown the door. How soon we forget that we used to be new nurses too....
  4. by   sayitgirl
    These places are not in the minority my dear....
  5. by   twotrees2
    Quote from SadAngryNurse
    I am experiencing the same problem at work right now. It has gotten me so paranoid and afraid that I even got a new username to even reply to this thread.

    I have been with this hospital for almost 2 years. I was working PRN for a while and was asked by the DON to come back to work Full Time. She really believed that I was a great nurse, did an excelent job, and really wanted me to be there full time again. I was working PRN at a different job at the time and she got HR to almost match my PRN pay so that I would be able to come back to work. I also had to have 1 specific day a week off and was told that would be no problem. (We work 12's so I only have to work 3 days/week. 1 day off leaves 6 days to pick from). Shortly after that the DON left and a new DON was brought in. Then the trouble began.

    Here is pretty much what was said and what has happened:

    "I have read each and every one of your personel files before I ever came. If your old DON gave you a good review, I know that you are really only average, because my standarts are higher."

    "I want to let each and every one of you know that you can be replaced. I have lots of nurses applying and just waiting to come and take your place."

    "Any agreement you had with your old DON is meaningless. There is nothing on paper, so I can make you work whatever I want to."

    When I informed her that I need to have my 1 specific day off. "You will work whatever we schedule you. THIS is your full time job." We basically have to be avaliable 7 days a week to work.

    Lots of Bogus write ups. People written up for "x # of patients have complained about this." or "x # of coworkers have complained about this." No paper record of any kind about the complaint. But a paper trail in your file for when they want to fire you.

    On my shift of about 30 people that worked before the DON there is only about 10 people left that worked there 3 months ago.

    The new competent nurses that are just waiting to take our jobs are brand new grads with no experience, nurses from other areas with no hospital experience. Some of them are eager to learn and are quick to pick up. Others have been told over and over again how to not make the same mistake, and get angry and defensive when you try to correct them.

    If you mention any complaints or concerns to management than there is another piece added to your personel-file paper trail regarding your 'Bad Additude and unwillingness to work with others.'

    Experienced competent nurses are send home when the census is low, but the cheaper nurses who have only worked there 1 month are allowed to stay.

    People get written up for calling in twice due to family being sick, but they have no problem canceling your shift 1/2 the time. Not showing up for work is ok if it benefits the company.

    Nurses who have been there longer are written up for the same things that are going unoticed when the newer nurses make the same mistake.

    Patient care has gone down the drain in this hospital. We have been told that it is perfectely fine for us to take care of 7-8 patients by ourselfes with one tech for a total of 32 patients, because thats how they do it at x hospital.

    Policies are randomly replaced, often on a whim by management.

    Substandart equipment is being rented, because it saves the company money.

    And the person that suffers the most is the patient.

    I am pretty sure I cannot put up with this much longer.

    The "nursing shortage" is a direct result of nurses being driven away from the bedside not because of having to deal with patients, but having to deal with management.

    most places dont have all these nurses knocking down their doors as they proclaim either - a lot of it is hot air. our DON told us they hired 5 nurses - umm yeah - one decided to go to a day a month cause she gets paid big bucks traveling - another works only on sat as he has a full time job and isnt about to leave it - another - a rehire of a fired for incompetence worker - skeery in my book as she runs under my license when i am there which brings me to a point i myself work less as i refuse any days she is on. - then there is another that quit after a week and another looking already for another job- dont let em fool ya - at least in small towns that pay little to nothing they aren't knocking down our doors.
  6. by   yupyup5
    Hello everyone...you asked for manager response, so goes. I am amazed at the speculations I am reading about. Do you know the specifics as to why someone is discipined (written up, as you word it)? That is and should be confidential information, between the manager and employee. So how is it that you think you have the facts about the situation? Is the employee sharing the facts with you and if so are you getting the whole story or their version. I caution you to believe everything you hear, especially if it is "third" person. The old adage, she said, he said...

    I for one /counsel/discipline nurses for unsafe practice, violating policy, etc. As an example, reading a family members medical record, when they are not caring for them (HIPAA violation), not following protocol/orders/best practice. Leaving the department (off campus) to smoke a cigarette and thus leaving their coworker alone (unsafe?). Not telling anyone they are leaving the floor so that we/I could provide coverage. Do I first decide if this employee is someone with tenure, or a nurse who has seniority and gets paid a higher salary, absolutely not, I judge the situation on it's own merits.

    I suggest if you do have issues or questions about how a situation transpired you should have a discussion with your manager. They should be able to clarify (within confidential boundaries) the facts. It is far better than perpetuating the rumor mill....
  7. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from yupyup5
    Hello everyone...you asked for manager response, so goes. I am amazed at the speculations I am reading about. Do you know the specifics as to why someone is discipined (written up, as you word it)? That is and should be confidential information, between the manager and employee. So how is it that you think you have the facts about the situation? Is the employee sharing the facts with you and if so are you getting the whole story or their version. I caution you to believe everything you hear, especially if it is "third" person. The old adage, she said, he said...
    This is true in most cases, but let's face it....among friends, friends talk.
    Friends are honest with one another because they want sincere feedback.


    It is also true that two eyewitnesses can tell widely differing versions of the "truth." So while you might feel that you are being fair as a manager, you might not actually be perceived by your coworkers as entirely bias-free. We all have our blind spots, after all.

    Quote from yupyup5
    I for one /counsel/discipline nurses for unsafe practice, violating policy, etc. As an example, reading a family members medical record, when they are not caring for them (HIPAA violation), not following protocol/orders/best practice. Leaving the department (off campus) to smoke a cigarette and thus leaving their coworker alone (unsafe?). Not telling anyone they are leaving the floor so that we/I could provide coverage. Do I first decide if this employee is someone with tenure, or a nurse who has seniority and gets paid a higher salary, absolutely not, I judge the situation on it's own merits.
    I'm glad you can be so impartial and apply the rules fairly. Some do not. Maybe it's not a matter of tenure or salary. Maybe it's a matter of the cultural age-bias that we encounter everywhere, maybe it's just that you have a personality conflict with someone, maybe it's just that you view older, overweight nurses with less favor than younger, more energetic ones.

    Whatever the case, I encourage you to try to continue to be objective and as fair as possible. We need more managers like you.

    Quote from yupyup5
    I suggest if you do have issues or questions about how a situation transpired you should have a discussion with your manager. They should be able to clarify (within confidential boundaries) the facts. It is far better than perpetuating the rumor mill....
    This can pose a problem to those nurses who feel they are having a problem with their managers. I mean, think about it. You have a problem with someone, you feel you are treated unfairly by someone, that feeling is validated by people who are observant but uninvolved in the situation...and then you're going to go to try to resolve the problem and expect the fair shake you have so far failed to get?

    I dunno. I myself would do as you suggest and hope for the best. But if you gauge the person correctly, it's usually pretty hard to get fair treatment from someone who's got it in for you. KWIM?
  8. by   caroladybelle
    Let's see:

    I work 12 hour shifts - 3-4 a week for years with someone, let's call her Mary. We have chatted about all sorts of issues. We have been through meetings, know each other's family, health etc.

    You, as manager, see us oh for maybe an hour every two weeks (or less if we are night shifters).

    You think we do not know every complaint/comment/issue that you have discussed with one of us. That we haven't hashed it out. You think that you even remotely know any issues that we do not already know about each others' work, whether the other one is good nurse or not.

    If you think that actually is kept "private and confidential", I have a bridge to sell you.

    And this "I/we provide coverage"....in the vast majority of facilities, it is the fellow staff that provides coverage, not "I/we". While there may be managers that provide coverage, they are few and far between.
    Last edit by caroladybelle on Sep 9, '06
  9. by   skay
    Amen!!!!!! There Is Usually More To The Story. Preception Plays A Big Part.
  10. by   skay
    Oops. My Reponse Post #112 Was In Response To Post#109. Sorry.
  11. by   skay
    Quote from caroladybelle
    Let's see:

    I work 12 hour shifts - 3-4 a week for years with someone, let's call her Mary. We have chatted about all sorts of issues. We have been through meetings, know each other's family, health etc.

    You, as manager, see us oh for maybe an hour every two weeks (or less if we are night shifters).

    You think we do not know every complaint/comment/issue that you have discussed with one of us. That we haven't hashed it out. You think that you even remotely know any issues that we do not already know about each others' work, whether the other one is good nurse or not.

    If you think that actually is kept "private and confidential", I have a bridge to sell you.

    And this "I/we provide coverage"....in the vast majority of facilities, it is the fellow staff that provides coverage, not "I/we". While there may be managers that provide coverage, they are few and far between.
    ALL THE MANAGERS IN MY FACILITY ARE EXPECTED TO FIND COVERAGE FOR THEIR OWN UNITS OR FILL IN THE HOLES THEMSELVES. I RECENTLY WORKED A 12 HOUR SHIFT DOING PT CARE. FORTUNATELY MOST OF THE STAFF WILL WORK OT. ALL THE MANAGERS IN MY FACILITY WORK ON THEIR UNITS. THEY DO NOT HAVE OFFICES OFF THE UNIT. WE ALL SEE OUR EMPLOYEES ON A FREQUENT BASIS INCLUDING OUR NOC SHIFT. I KNOW MY STAFF FAIRLY WELL.SOME MORE THAN OTHERS. YES I HAVE STAFF THAT FEEL I TARGET THEM MORE THAN OTHERS. WELL SORRY DO YOUR JOB AS YOU SHOULD FOLLOW ALL THE RULES AND YOU WON'T BE A TARGET. NEVER HAVE I BEEN TOLD BY UPPER MANAGEMENT TO TERMINATE SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE----- THEY MAKE MORE MONEY THAN A NEW GRAD ETC. I HAVE HAD IT SUGGESTED TO ME TO WATCH CLOSELY AN EMPLOYEE WHO HAS POOR JOB PERFORMANCE AND NOT TO OVERLOOK INCIDENTS TO DISICPLINE SO A PAPER TRAIL CAN BE CREATED. AS A CO-WORKER TO THESE INDIVIDUALS I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD BE GRATEFUL THAT MANAGEMENT WANTS TO ELIMINATE THE POOR PERFORMER. I FIND THE PEOPLE THAT YELL THE LOUDEST THAT MANAGEMENT IS OUT TO ELIMANTE OR STICK IT TO THE EMPLOYEES ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HAVING DIFFICULTY IN THEIR JOB PERFORMANCE, ARE NOT FITTING IN AS A TEAM PLAYER, AND ARE GENERALLY NEGATIVE PEOPLE. AS FAR AS KNOWING EVERY EMPLOYEES COMPLAINT/COMMENT/ ISSUE THAT IS UP TO THE EMPLOYEES IF YOU WANT TO AIR YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY THAT IS YOUR RIGHT BUT DON'T BLAME MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE ISSUES ARE BEING AIRED AMONGST THE STAFF. IF YOUR ON THE RECIEVING END I HOPE YOU WOULD LISTEN WITH AN OPEN MIND AS USUALLY YOU ARE GETTING ONLY WHAT THE PERSON WANTS YOU TO HEAR AND USUALLY FOR THE SYMPATHY FACTOR. I HAVE EMPLOYEES THAT DO THIS AND IT IS DIFFICULY NOT TO SPEAK OUT AND CORRECT WHAT IS BEING SAID BUT AS A MANAGER WE CAN NOT ALWAYS DO THAT AS THE INFORMATION BEING DISCUSSED IS CONFIDENTIAL BETWEEN A MANAGER AND THE PROBLEM EMPLOYEE. KEY WORD: PERCEPTION
  12. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Quote from yupyup5
    Do you know the specifics as to why someone is discipined (written up, as you word it)? That is and should be confidential information, between the manager and employee.
    Why should it be confidential information? If the employee wants to share the information with their colleagues, isn't it their 1st amendment right to do so if they wish?
  13. by   caroladybelle
    Please do not post all in caps. It is considered yelling and is quite rude.

    For that matter, most managers that I have worked with, would have known that and would not be yelling at us on the Internet. They also know how to use punctuation. We lowly staff nurses would get marked off on our evals, if we yelled in communication or didn't use punctuation.

    And PERCEPTION is a a very key word, obviously.
    Last edit by caroladybelle on Sep 9, '06

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