Hep B waiver while taking series? - page 2

The usual, My nursing program has informed me that I must sign a statement that says that I refuse the Hep B series and I understand the dangers of not being immunized,one being my possible death,... Read More

  1. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    BTW,

    I think that being a speaker-upper nurse is fine once you are a nurse and the only way you'll get what you want. A student is entirely dependant on, and at the mercy of,the almighty clinical instructor. Clinical grading is subjective,as in a pass/fail kind of way. The clinical instuctor alone,not your abilities or effort,decides whether you pass. The student may not have the option,as a licensed nurse,to simply find another facillity.

    No,it's not the time to be a speaker-upper Student nurse.

    Besides,that's why I have the BB
  2. by   fergus51
    Ummm why would Hep B end your career? And what do you reasonably expect the school to do if you did become infected? I mean in the end you are going to have to choose to go into clinical knowing you may not be completely protected.

    And why would not having the series affect your choice of patients? We don't run routine Hep screens on our patients (or HIV for that matter). Unfortunately part of your bedside career is taking care of patients not knowing if they are infected or not. That's why we should be vigilant with our technique ALL the time.
  3. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Hep B doesn't end my career,that's why I said bedside career .

    Last time I looked (10 years ago) if you contracted Hep B,you would always be a carrier. You could not be "cured". Why would anyone hire a nurse to the bedside that is a carrier?
    And what do you reasonably expect the school to do if you did become infected?
    Why would they need me to sign a document saying that I refused it?

    And why would not having the series affect your choice of patients? We don't run routine Hep screens on our patients (or HIV for that matter).
    So,pts don't get diagnosed with Hep B?
    Or is it that it's too confidential to let anyone know?

    Why were they so sneaky about it? They could have just said "without the three shots and a titre,you will be refusing"

    C'mon,the school is scared to death of liability issues. everybody sues everybody these days.

    It is always up to me to protect myself,vaccinations or not,but the school was not up-front about it. The school had the chance 6 months ago to tell me the form was invalid and misleading...........they knew.
  4. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    BTW,

    It is my fault.

    never.........never trust an administrative document verbatim.

    Criticaly read
    Criticaly question
    Criticaly reason

    Trust nobody but yourself.
    Question those that say "it's no big deal,just sign it"
    "you can have it fixed later"
    "I'll take care of it"
    "I'll write that down"
    "I'll be sure and talk to him"

    Yada,yada,yada.........

    Oh yea,almost forgot,
    Hand it to them in person
    Document Time,who,what,where,clothes they were wearing,body language,nationality, blood type,jewlery,ambient temp,DNA testing from the hair you snagged while they were distracted:chuckle

    Then maybe there's an outside chance it won't be "lost"
  5. by   sjoe
    You seem to miss the point,which is that clinical placements want to protect their patients from YOUR passing along Hep B, and other diseases, to them. Why wouldn't they? So the facilities require statements such as the one you describe from people in a position to contaminate their patients. The advice I gave above, still holds.

    Your issue, however, seems to be centered around the fact that you have learned not to trust your nursing school. That's fine. They are not in the business of taking care of you. But remember in the future to make a Xerox copy for yourself of these and other kinds of forms, so you'll be able to prove you turned them in. And choose your battles wisely. This one is not a worthwhile battle, since you are on the wrong side.

    But more generally, as I have repeatedly said on this BB:

    If you can't stand up for yourself as a student, when YOU are paying THEM, you'll not likely be willing to stand up for yourself later, when THEY are paying YOU. Some students seem to forget that THEY have hired the school to perform a task--to teach you how to be a nurse and to provide you enough information to enable you to pass THE EXAM.

    I stood up, loudly when necessary, for myself (as well as for other nursing students when that happened to be part of the issue--only one of whom, by the way, ever thanked me) all the way through nursing school and took NO crap from those few instructors or administrators (with most of whom I had very good relationships, by the way, and "crap" didn't enter into the picture. I didn't go through school with a chip on my shoulder, looking for a fight.) who might been inclined to provide some. The instructors/administrators who would have otherwise been bullies, soon learned to avoid me and try to get me through their classes and offices as quickly as possible.

    Sub-assertion can always find excuses. Take an assertiveness training course, at least, those of you who posting above who need one. Assertion is NOT aggression, nor is it the mamby-pamby "I can feel what you're saying," Clinton-esque, ineffective and insulting condescension taught in the '70s. It is standing up for yourself and for your ideas in a way that is most likely to get you what you want, which may be simply to convey your idea very clearly and unmistakably.
    Last edit by sjoe on Sep 18, '02
  6. by   fergus51
    Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur
    Hep B doesn't end my career,that's why I said bedside career .

    Last time I looked (10 years ago) if you contracted Hep B,you would always be a carrier. You could not be "cured". Why would anyone hire a nurse to the bedside that is a carrier?


    Why would they need me to sign a document saying that I refused it?



    So,pts don't get diagnosed with Hep B?
    Or is it that it's too confidential to let anyone know?

    Why were they so sneaky about it? They could have just said "without the three shots and a titre,you will be refusing"

    C'mon,the school is scared to death of liability issues. everybody sues everybody these days.

    It is always up to me to protect myself,vaccinations or not,but the school was not up-front about it. The school had the chance 6 months ago to tell me the form was invalid and misleading...........they knew.
    Yes as far as I understand you are always technically a carrier, but employers have no right to this info here, and if you are using universal precautions you shouldn't infect your patients.

    They probably need you to sign the document so that you don't sue them later saying you did not know the risks AND they forced you to go to clinical without being properly immunized.

    And yes, some patients get diagnosed with Hep B, but most carriers are asymptomatic and you have no way of knowing which are, or who has HIV or Hep C for that matter, unless they are in being treated for that disease or they choose to share that info with you IF they even know they are infected. So you never know who has these diseases and always use universal precautions.

    I just don't get the big problem here. So you don't feel they were perfectly forthcoming six months ago... If you know they are concerned with liability why don't you want to allay that concern by signing that you refused to have the 3 shots done before going into clinical and did so knowing the risks? Were you planning on suing if you do get Hep B?
  7. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    I'm not interested in suing.

    I only care about the way it was done. They knew 6 months ago that they would do this. They probably have the same form that they've been using for years. They probably have most of the class every year handed the form for the third time with the refused box marked for them. They are told to sign and put thier social on it,just as last years class was told.
    It's not an oversight
    or just a problem with me and my "chip" but maybe tradition instead.



    Almost the entire class was forced to sign pre-marked waivers today. The other ones plobably caved last week.
    They had to have known this was going to result from that form.
    Why not avoid all this paper wrangling? I went to an information session last year and got a packet of information well before my orientation. It was easy to schedule my series while I was only working part-time.

    It did produce a positive effect for the school though.


    the students will be hypersensitive to fluid precautions and needle sticks Much more attentive than if they had time to complete the series.

    Super asepsis machines!!!
    "those students are scubbing their little hands off..and that soiled linen;you would think it was radioactive the way they treat it" they'll say.

    The clinical sites do want to protect their patients. If the students are worried they'll croak,maybe they'll be that much more attentive
    Last edit by Peeps Mcarthur on Sep 18, '02
  8. by   sjoe
    I had Hep B many years ago but didn't know it until I later tried to donate blood. I was then told that I had Hep B antibodies and so they couldn't use my blood. And I am NOT a carrier. I am permanently immune, so didn't have to get my Hep B shots for school or work. Some people are carriers of A and/or B, but most people who have had these diseases are not.

    Interesting question, though, got me to realize that I don't understand the "carrier" mechanism. Do these people simply create enough, or potent enough, antibodies to keep the symptoms suppressed, but not enough to eliminate the virus? I don't know. But I'll bet one of you does.
    Last edit by sjoe on Sep 19, '02

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