Grounds for termination - page 3

If a CNA cusses at you (the nurse) in front of two residents, do you think that is ground for immediate termination? I think so, but instead I have to continue to work with this CNA. Not that I'm... Read More

  1. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from firstyearstudent
    Frankly, it sounds like you are just hurt and humiliated, so want her fired. Unless she has a history of flying off the handle or is not doing a good job or is repeatedly hostile toward you, you should just put it down to having a bad day.

    But does anyone who is trying to do their job have to be hurt and humilated? While I understand your point, I don't think that many people can wrap their brain around diminishing this experience to 'a bad day'. Does this happen on Wall Street? In the business/corporate world? Not the same way it does in the world of nursing. This is what makes people run for the hills on the first thing smoking.
  2. by   firstyearstudent
    Quote from pagandeva2000
    But does anyone who is trying to do their job have to be hurt and humilated? While I understand your point, I don't think that many people can wrap their brain around diminishing this experience to 'a bad day'. Does this happen on Wall Street? In the business/corporate world? Not the same way it does in the world of nursing. This is what makes people run for the hills on the first thing smoking.
    We live in an imperfect world and work with fallible human beings. We should expect professionalism but realize that's not always what we'll get. This kind of thing goes on all the time in high-stress professions. I have friends who work in the movie industry and those folks are at each other's throats all day long. Not that I condone that kind of behavior or think it's acceptable. I just feel that someone shouldn't be terminated for freaking out at work one day. The threat of work-place violence is very real, but we can't use a feeling of being under threat or hurt to justify our own aggressive action. It's not okay to invade Iraq or to terminate a subordinate because they said something we didn't like and we felt disrespected. The proper way to deal with that is to defend ourselves rationally, without apology, and to make sure the offender knows from both the one who was offended and an impartial party (manager?) that the behavior was out of line and will not be tolerated in the future.
  3. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from firstyearstudent
    We live in an imperfect world and work with fallible human beings. We should expect professionalism but realize that's not always what we'll get. This kind of thing goes on all the time in high-stress professions. I have friends who work in the movie industry and those folks are at each other's throats all day long. Not that I condone that kind of behavior or think it's acceptable. I just feel that someone shouldn't be terminated for freaking out at work one day. The threat of work-place violence is very real, but we can't use a feeling of being under threat or hurt to justify our own aggressive action. It's not okay to invade Iraq or to terminate a subordinate because they said something we didn't like and we felt disrespected. The proper way to deal with that is to defend ourselves rationally, without apology, and to make sure the offender knows from both the one who was offended and an impartial party (manager?) that the behavior was out of line and will not be tolerated in the future.

    I am not challenging or arguing your sensible approach. Your rationale is kind and gentle, greatly needed. I just believe this was not the first time for this person; I've seen it too often. And, to me, it is different when we have to collaborate to care for those who cannot care for themselves. In the other industries, it is paper, these are people. If I were a patient witnessing such behavior (especially an elderly one), I would be frightened, insecure about the care I would receive from such a person and would be more afraid to report it because I live there.
  4. by   caliotter3
    Quote from pagandeva2000
    I am not challenging or arguing your sensible approach. Your rationale is kind and gentle, greatly needed. I just believe this was not the first time for this person; I've seen it too often. And, to me, it is different when we have to collaborate to care for those who cannot care for themselves. In the other industries, it is paper, these are people. If I were a patient witnessing such behavior (especially an elderly one), I would be frightened, insecure about the care I would receive from such a person and would be more afraid to report it because I live there.
    You make very good points. Am in total agreement with you.
  5. by   nurseforlife
    I worked with a bully nurse one day who yelled at me in front of the whole nursing station. In front of doctors, patients, and other nurses. I waited till she was alone in the staff room....shut the door, and said "I would like to speak to you right now" I told her that if she had something to say she should confront me right now in private. She was speachless, and didn't know what to do. She said "I have nothing to say to you" and walked out. She didn't talk to me for 3 days. But, her atitude was different after that, and seemed nicer. Her BARK WAS LOUDER THAN HER BITE.
  6. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from nurseforlife
    I worked with a bully nurse one day who yelled at me in front of the whole nursing station. In front of doctors, patients, and other nurses. I waited till she was alone in the staff room....shut the door, and said "I would like to speak to you right now" I told her that if she had something to say she should confront me right now in private. She was speachless, and didn't know what to do. She said "I have nothing to say to you" and walked out. She didn't talk to me for 3 days. But, her atitude was different after that, and seemed nicer. Her BARK WAS LOUDER THAN HER BITE.
    Oh, yeah...I have had a couple of those 'privates' myself. Scared the heck out of them. No one bothers me, though...:chuckle. But, I wish that this did not have to happen. Way to go nurseforlife!!
  7. by   Not_A_Hat_Person
    I was in a similar situation at my current job. The perpetrator was friends with the managers, so I knew going to them wouldn't do any good. Confronting him privately only added fuel to the fire.
  8. by   rn1969
    Coming from another line of work, I've notice that the medical profession can be quite petty and also quite unprofessional Doctors yelling at nurses, nurses yelling at each other. In many other lines of business they would require you to attend angry management courses or terminate you on the spot.
  9. by   Scrubby
    Quote from kstec
    The reason that I'm fearful is that she is known to be a CNA you don't mess with and is already walking on thin ice due to her attitude. When she was brought into my bosses office all she could do was demand to speak to me face to face and I guess her state of mind was so irrational that my boss said absolutely not. That is why I'm fearful. She's seems like someone who doesn't play by the rules which in turn makes me fearful of her setting me up at work, being a bully or whatever else. It is mutual that we do not work together per my bosses okay. But how sad, when the whole thing was over me asking her one to many times if she had so and so, and that if she did please let me know so I can come help her with the HS care and do my tx. whether it be a cream, oint, powder or dressing change. It's a lot easier doing it that way than asking her to go back to each room after she's done with them when we could of "killed two birds with one stone". But she took it as I was rushing her and riding her all night, which was not the case. I did not tell her to do anything. I asked her to tell me when and I would come in the room then. I even said if she wanted to she could turn on the light and I would come with my medications (oints, creams, drssgs, etc). Does that sound like I needed to be cussed at in front of two residents?
    I'm going to be really blunt here, apologies in advance if I hurt your feelings but I want to be completely honest.

    You seem way too nice. Not everyone acts and thinks the way you do, this CNA is aggressive and obviously can't behave professionally.

    Nursing is a dog eat dog world. If you can't stick up for yourself then your going to be walked all over. By doctors, other nurses, those you are supervising.

    I'm not saying you need to be nasty. But next time someone disrespects you, in front patients/other collegues, you need to stand up. You are the LPN, this is a CNA. You are supervising them. If someone starts swearing and acting in an unprofessional manner then as the person in a higher position you need to TELL them (do not ask them) to stop it immediately. If they don't stop then they are endangering patients and you threaten them with security. Call a Code Black on them and have them escorted off the building. Document everything, write an incident report.

    How would you feel if you were a patient/resident and seeing this behaviour from those who are supposed to be caring for you? Quite frankly, I would be terrified.

    And STOP APOLOGISING. She's walking all over you and your letting this happen. You need to toughen up, grow a pair and make HER to the apologising.
  10. by   nurseforlife
    I speak for myself, but right now I mostly work with Male nurses and orderlies in psychiatry. I have found it to be such a big difference than when working in a female dominated unit. It seems a lot less petty, less friction, less attitude. We actually have fun.
  11. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from Not_A_Hat_Person
    I was in a similar situation at my current job. The perpetrator was friends with the managers, so I knew going to them wouldn't do any good. Confronting him privately only added fuel to the fire.
    Oh, yeah, the 'favorite child' syndrome. This is what encourages the bullying to continue. Sometimes, this career makes me want to :urgycld:
  12. by   firstyearstudent
    Quote from nurseforlife
    I speak for myself, but right now I mostly work with Male nurses and orderlies in psychiatry. I have found it to be such a big difference than when working in a female dominated unit. It seems a lot less petty, less friction, less attitude. We actually have fun.
    This is sad but true. As a second career nurse I am totally disgusted with the "witchy" nurse culture.
  13. by   rngolfer53
    Quote from firstyearstudent
    Frankly, it sounds like you are just hurt and humiliated, so want her fired. Unless she has a history of flying off the handle or is not doing a good job or is repeatedly hostile toward you, you should just put it down to having a bad day.
    I disagree entirely.

    An LTC is the home of the residents, and vulgar outbursts should not be tolerated in their home. The staff, all of them regardless of discipline or license level are there to serve the residents.

    Further, when you accept a certification or license you agree to a higher level of accountability for your actions.

    The excusing of public temper tantrums because some one is "having a bad day" might be fine for some jobs--though I can't think of any offhand--but certainly not for health care positions.

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