Glutton for Punishment?

  1. Preface: Sorry this is so long, summary at the bottom.

    So I got into an argument with these two women about the fact that there is absolutely no law on the books about BSNs being required by 2020 (also including LVNs being phased out of hospitals). I told them I've been an nurse for 7 years & have heard that since I started. The first woman told me that she was told this by an advisor at her daughter's school, who is a nurse with advanced degrees. I told the first woman that the advisor shouldn't be spreading such lies without documentation to back up what she is saying. I was also shocked that someone with an advanced degree would say something like that with no proof.

    Needless to say the second woman got pissed off too & jumped in on the bandwagon. I asked both women several times for proof of the 2020 rule/law but never received anything. I did get shown an op/ed piece from the second woman but now law stating LVNs would be allowed to work in hospitals & all RNs would be forced to get their BSNs.

    Both woman continued to bash LVNs & talk about how this nurse new more about this "law" than me. How LVNs kill more people in acute care & how unsafe they are. Did I mention that neither women are nurses! LOL!

    I provided them with proof that LVNs are still being hired into hospital positions in the state of Texas as well as ADN grads. I tried to explain to both of the women that it isn't a law but up to the hospital if they want to hire LVNs, ADNs or BSNs. But according to those to, in 2.5 years all the LVNs & ADNs working in hospitals will be SOL & out of jobs.

    Do they know something we all don't? I asked for proof over & over. Where is this magical law that states LVNs can't work in hospitals & RNs *must* be BSN prepared to work in hospitals by 2020? I figured you guys could lead me to the law since those two couldn't.

    i guess I just like beating my head against a wall for funsies. Because that's what it was like. No matter how I tried explaining to them, it could've been in any language, they didn't believe me. Probably because I'm "just an LVN". But because an RN with a BSN & MSN told them, it *has* to be true.

    It just blows my mind that 2 "educated" people can't realize that after a simple Google search what that nurse said wasn't true. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it a fact.

    TL;DR: Two women said the BSN by 2020 was a law (also LVNs being phased out of hospitals), I tried to show them otherwise. They didn't believe me because they were told so by an RN & I'm "just an LVN". Neither women are nurses nor could they show me any proof of said law while I showed them proof of LVNs & ADNs being hired in TX hospitals.
    •  
  2. 77 Comments

  3. by   elkpark
    Just don't waste your time. Lots of people believe stuff that isn't true, and you're not going to change their minds.
  4. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from elkpark
    Just don't waste your time. Lots of people believe stuff that isn't true, and you're not going to change their minds.
    I thought I could change their minds with ya know, facts. LOL HAHAHA! Silly me. What kind of idiot am I to believe that facts trump hearsay?? Isn't that what nursing is founded on? Gossip, hearsay & ********? Oh wait...
  5. by   elkpark
    Quote from OrganizedChaos
    I thought I could change their minds with ya know, facts. LOL HAHAHA! Silly me. What kind of idiot am I to believe that facts trump hearsay?? Isn't that what nursing is founded on? Gossip, hearsay & ********? Oh wait...
    Turns out it is kind of dumb to think that facts might trump hearsay (I mean that in a funny way, not a mean way!) This is "a thing," and it's been around for a long time (note the date on the Boston Globe article is 2010). For lots of people, once they think they "know" something, their response to being presented with factual evidence to the contrary isn't to change their minds -- they just dig in deeper. That's why I advise to not waste your time if people are not receptive to being corrected early on.

    How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
  6. by   Guy in Babyland
    To paraphrase a State Farm commercial "They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true."
  7. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from elkpark
    Turns out it is kind of dumb to think that facts might trump hearsay (I mean that in a funny way, not a mean way!) This is "a thing," and it's been around for a long time (note the date on the Boston Globe article is 2010). For lots of people, once they think they "know" something, their response to being presented with factual evidence to the contrary isn't to change their minds -- they just dig in deeper. That's why I advise to not waste your time if people are not receptive to being corrected early on.

    How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
    Lol. You know what's ironic about this? You're showing me facts about how facts don't change people's minds. LOL. Hahahahaha!

    But that's a really good article & mind blowing. I never knew that. It actually makes a whole lot of sense. Thank you!
  8. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from Guy in Babyland
    To paraphrase a State Farm commercial "They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true."
    LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
    Ahahahahaha!
  9. by   NurseSpeedy
    It's not worth the energy to get upset over. It is always up to the employer who they will hire and up to the nursing board what the scope of practice will be. I worked as an LPN for many years in hospitals and each one allowed me to do different things at their facilities (basically they could put restrictions on what we did even though it was still within our scope).

    I think in a way it depends on supply and demand. With all the different schools available now to produce RNs and more online opportunities for advanced levels of nursing education, the BSN is easier to obtain than years ago. Where I work we only hire RNs and are pushing for BSNs, but one day when we were very short I was working with an agency nurse that they approved for the shift who was an LPN. Could I tell the difference (except if I looked at her name tag)? No. The only time she needed me was to hang blood on a patient or co-sign a new admission assessment. She did fine and wasn't going around killing people. That line of thinking is just crazy.
  10. by   ThePrincessBride
    No, there is no *law* stating BSNs are the standard of entry for RNs. However, there is a strong "recommendation" from the Institute of Medicine to have 80% of RNs have BSNs by 2020, especially for hospitals seeking magnet status.

    Magnet FAQ's | UC Davis Nursing

    As for LVNs, in my area, LVNs have already been pushed out of acute care for the most part, but that is because the area is saturated with so many RN schools and every hospital in my neck of the woods wants to go magnet. In other places where there is more of a need, LVNs remain strong. Unfortunately, that isn't the case everywhere.
  11. by   Pixie.RN
    Because IT'S THE LAW!!! *eyeroll* I mean, really? I've heard that forever too ... we are nowhere close to coming together to even decide such a thing!
  12. by   kbrn2002
    Contradictory information on nursing employment prospects is rampant. For every legitimate news source reporting a dire nursing shortage there's another one reporting such saturation that it's near impossible to find work. I've been hearing for years about LPN's being "phased out" and BSN becoming the entry level degree for RN's. Now in areas that truly have a saturated job market this might very well be the case, at least in acute care. But there are also areas where a nursing shortage truly does exist and finding a job regardless of degree is as easy as applying for one. Employment prospects are so geographically linked it's impossible to report either a shortage or saturation as a nationwide issue.
  13. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from NurseSpeedy
    It's not worth the energy to get upset over. It is always up to the employer who they will hire and up to the nursing board what the scope of practice will be. I worked as an LPN for many years in hospitals and each one allowed me to do different things at their facilities (basically they could put restrictions on what we did even though it was still within our scope).

    I think in a way it depends on supply and demand. With all the different schools available now to produce RNs and more online opportunities for advanced levels of nursing education, the BSN is easier to obtain than years ago. Where I work we only hire RNs and are pushing for BSNs, but one day when we were very short I was working with an agency nurse that they approved for the shift who was an LPN. Could I tell the difference (except if I looked at her name tag)? No. The only time she needed me was to hang blood on a patient or co-sign a new admission assessment. She did fine and wasn't going around killing people. That line of thinking is just crazy.
    They still hire LVNs in one hospital system near me as well as ADNs. But ya'know, how would I know? It's not like I've ever applied for said job or perused any job listings.

    There apparently was a journal article or something those two hens discussed about how LVNs in acute care killed more patients than BSN prepared nurses. Which boggles the mind. BSN prepared nurses don't have any extra clinical experience. Anyone can make a harmful decision & honestly, it would make more sense than an RN would since their scope is wider.

    They sounded like they were very bitter towards LVNs & talking out of their asses.
  14. by   OrganizedChaos
    Quote from ThePrincessBride
    No, there is no *law* stating BSNs are the standard of entry for RNs. However, there is a strong "recommendation" from the Institute of Medicine to have 80% of RNs have BSNs by 2020, especially for hospitals seeking magnet status.

    Magnet FAQ's | UC Davis Nursing

    As for LVNs, in my area, LVNs have already been pushed out of acute care for the most part, but that is because the area is saturated with so many RN schools and every hospital in my neck of the woods wants to go magnet. In other places where there is more of a need, LVNs remain strong. Unfortunately, that isn't the case everywhere.
    Yeah, I showed them that. That it is *reccomended* but that it is not a *law*. But they still heldfast to the belief that LVNs will be phased out of hospitals everywhere & RNs will be 100% required to have their BSN by 2020. I guess they just didn't want to believe that an LVN could be right over an RN-MSN. *gasp*

close