Nurses Helping Nurses
allnurses Network: Central | Jobs | Books | Newsletter
allnurses: A Nursing Community for Nurses
Home General News Blogs Articles Students Region Specialty Degrees F.A.Q.
General Nursing Discussion /

"Fired for NO Reason"



Did You Know?
allnurses is the largest community for nurses on the web. We now have over 388,108 members! Join today to network with other nurses, laugh, share, and much more.
Page 8 of 41 « First < 34567 8 910111213 > Last »

No. 70
from llg
Old Feb 07, 2009, 11:48 AM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
A lot of people use the expression "critical thinking" to mean any mental process. that makes it hard to pin down as a concept.

Nurses need to be able to assess a situation -- to put a bunch of observable facts together and understand how they all fit together -- identify problems -- and then go through a process of sound reasoning to develop a plan. Unfortunately, not everyone has those intellectual skills. Some people see a lab value and all they see is a number: they can't see a relationship between that number and the other facts of the situation. Some people may see a problem, but can't figure out what might be causing it ... or can't think through the possible interventions and choose a reasonable one. They only see the concrete thing in front of them and can only see it in isolation. Those people really don't have what it takes to be a nurse -- unless they can improve those skills.
Top

11 Readers Gave Kudos
 
Advertisement
Sponsored Links
 
No. 71
from talaxandra
Old Feb 07, 2009, 11:50 AM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
wow - that was so much better expressed than my attempt at an explanation!
Top
 
No. 72
from truern
Old Feb 07, 2009, 11:52 AM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Originally Posted by Freedom42 View Post
New grad here. Thank you, Ruby, for your post. I'll keep it in mind as I start my first job.

Everyone has a unique interpretation of Ruby's post. Here's mine: I don't think it's about new grad versus veteran, young versus old, or even about nursing. It's about Sal's lack of insight.

Sal will have the same problem wherever she goes, whether she's an accountant or a nurse or a teacher. She'll always have this problem in her relationships, too. It will always be someone else's fault. Until she takes responsibility for her behavior and her actions, until she sees that she is not the center of the universe, until she sees that she is a bit player on the world stage, she'll always believe that everyone else is the problem. Haven't we all worked with Sal somewhere? As one poster noted, you've got to open your mind to learn.

Now, if you don't mind, I've had my license for seven hours. I've got to go celebrate.


Sal will have the same problem wherever she goes Yes she will because unfortunately wherever she goes, there she'll be! If someone continually finds themself having the same problems wherever they are maybe THEY'RE the problem.
Top

5 Readers Gave Kudos
 
No. 73
from eriksoln
Old Feb 07, 2009, 11:55 AM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Originally Posted by talaxandra View Post
If you're task oriented you focus on the jobs that need to be done (do the obs, give the meds, wash the patient) but don't think about why these need to be done.

So, for example, I'll sometimes find stable stroke patients having neuro obs a week after admission (GCS unchanged since presentation), because nobody thought about why this patient needed neuro obs and if that's still necessary. Or a patient has been on BD obs so the non-critical thinking nurse doesn't (or doesn't consistently) put together a change in condition with increased monitoring.

Obviously this is a fairly basic example, and for the most part most of us employ at least some critical thinking in our day-to-day practice, and as our knowledge, expereince and awareness of all the factors that interact with our patient's condition increases, we think more intelligently about what needs to be checked, changed and followed up. As you say, erik, it doesn't seem extraordinatry. If you're doing it.

For those nurses who don't seem to be able to think critically, the concept is invisible. It's not a process of elimination, perhaps because the connections between BP and meds (or reasons why an APPT might have dropped) aren't there.
OK. So, if I am "thinking critically" , the person has gotten better at this point as evidenced by the consistent scores. People not realizeing the pt. is better and doesnt need GCS anymore just read the orders and do it.

Actually, related to another thread I just posted in..............I would see the scores remaining the same and first thing that would come to mind is "are people really doing these or just copying the assessment from the shift before?" I would go see if I agree with it. If I do, then see about getting rid of GCS for that pt.

Am I way off or what?

Told ya, I am task oreinted. But I dont mind it. There arent meds not given that shouldve been or folleys not inserted when you take over for me. lol
Top

1 Reader Gave Kudos
 
No. 74
from eriksoln
Old Feb 07, 2009, 11:59 AM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Originally Posted by llg View Post
A lot of people use the expression "critical thinking" to mean any mental process. that makes it hard to pin down as a concept.

Nurses need to be able to assess a situation -- to put a bunch of observable facts together and understand how they all fit together -- identify problems -- and then go through a process of sound reasoning to develop a plan. Unfortunately, not everyone has those intellectual skills. Some people see a lab value and all they see is a number: they can't see a relationship between that number and the other facts of the situation. Some people may see a problem, but can't figure out what might be causing it ... or can't think through the possible interventions and choose a reasonable one. They only see the concrete thing in front of them and can only see it in isolation. Those people really don't have what it takes to be a nurse -- unless they can improve those skills.
So, would I be out of line saying the critical thinking that we as nurses are supposed to exhibit.......is............a little like..........detective work. Put together the clues, solve the problem thats going on.

I love your first line though, about how the term critical thinking may be a little overused. I do feel that way. People call things critical thinking and I say to myself "so, you figured out the IV bag is leaking from the wet floor, SO WHAT".
Top

1 Reader Gave Kudos
 
No. 75
from talaxandra
Old Feb 07, 2009, 12:12 PM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
With my first example - failing to check the BP before giving the antihypertensive is only a symptom of her bigger problem that exacerbated an existing issue. She should have been checking the BP regularly throughout the shift, as we already knew she had a potentially dangerouly low BP at 12:20. She didn't put together A (a drug with known antihypertensive sude effects), B (an already low BP) and C (a situation that warrants more frequent monitoring). She then compounded the error by not thinking "I'm giving an antihypertensive drug to this patient - what's her BP? Is she clinically stable? Should I assess her before giving this?"

In the neuro obs example, it's a combination of length of time and stability of observations. If a stroke patient had the same GCS for 24/24 I wouldn't cease the observations because there's still a danger of extension or of bleeding into an infarct, but at a week that's significantly reduced. You're doing the observations to pick up a deterioration in condition as early as possible, in order to investigate and - if possible - intervene. If the GCS suddenly drops then maybe they need more aggressive anticoagulation, or neurosurgical review, or inatropic support (if they're inadequately perfused and hypotensive)... You wouldn't necessarily know that if you don't work with stroke patients, but all the nurses on my ward ought to.

I hope that's made sense - it's been a long hot day without sleep and a busy night...

And I agree that the tasks need to be done. The difference is that the tasks should be a means to an end (like improved patient condition and outcomes, reduced pain, reduction in wound severity) rather than ends in themselves.
Top

1 Reader Gave Kudos
 
No. 76
from eriksoln
Old Feb 07, 2009, 12:31 PM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Originally Posted by talaxandra View Post
With my first example - failing to check the BP before giving the antihypertensive is only a symptom of her bigger problem that exacerbated an existing issue. She should have been checking the BP regularly throughout the shift, as we already knew she had a potentially dangerouly low BP at 12:20. She didn't put together A (a drug with known antihypertensive sude effects), B (an already low BP) and C (a situation that warrants more frequent monitoring). She then compounded the error by not thinking "I'm giving an antihypertensive drug to this patient - what's her BP? Is she clinically stable? Should I assess her before giving this?"

In the neuro obs example, it's a combination of length of time and stability of observations. If a stroke patient had the same GCS for 24/24 I wouldn't cease the observations because there's still a danger of extension or of bleeding into an infarct, but at a week that's significantly reduced. You're doing the observations to pick up a deterioration in condition as early as possible, in order to investigate and - if possible - intervene. If the GCS suddenly drops then maybe they need more aggressive anticoagulation, or neurosurgical review, or inatropic support (if they're inadequately perfused and hypotensive)... You wouldn't necessarily know that if you don't work with stroke patients, but all the nurses on my ward ought to.

I hope that's made sense - it's been a long hot day without sleep and a busy night...

And I agree that the tasks need to be done. The difference is that the tasks should be a means to an end (like improved patient condition and outcomes, reduced pain, reduction in wound severity) rather than ends in themselves.
Ah, oddly enough, that part makes sense to me.
Top
 
No. 77
from Seagate
Old Feb 07, 2009, 01:10 PM
Updated Feb 07, 2009 at 01:28 PM by Seagate

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Sorry wrong thread!
Top
 
No. 78
from eriksoln
Old Feb 07, 2009, 01:13 PM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Originally Posted by Seagate View Post
The problem with BSN programs is that they place a lot of emphasis on theory and very little on actual hands on experience besides the clinicals.
Errrr

Was that in relation to the critical thinking theme? I dont get it.
Top
 
No. 79
from Ruby Vee
Old Feb 07, 2009, 08:38 PM

Default Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Originally Posted by Faeriewand View Post
I disagree. If a nurse can make it thru nursing school and pass NCLEX then who is to say that nurse is in the wrong profession? Perhaps on the wrong floor! That ding-bat of a nurse might do better in clinic work? Or somewhere? <help me out people>
I think Sal would have done better to start out in Med Surg or perhaps a clinic. She had wonderful time management skills, but the ICU hi-tech seemed to fly right over her head. She's smart, but she just wasn't applying herself. So maybe she wasn't quite ready to actually BE a nurse.
Top

1 Reader Gave Kudos
 
Page 8 of 41 « First < 34567 8 910111213 > Last »
Reply




Thread Tools


Who's Online
371 members
3,104 guests
3,475

6

California Imposes Stricter Rules Regarding Drug Abuse In...

16

Are older nurses being forced out of the profession?

2

An outlook in California?

8

Australian surgeons successfully separate conjoined twins

41

Disruptive behavior by doctors, nurses persists a year...

31

Woman sues after police tackle her in ER during premature...

5

Beyond The Last Lecture -For Randy & Jai Pausch nurses...

18

WHO: Give at-risk groups anti-flu drugs early

21

Nursing, medical schools should work together, experts say

6

Army nurse honored after 100th birthday



1

Society Needs Care Too

11

Why am I doing this, anyway?

2

Nurse Heal Thyself

9

My Papa, why I am the nurse I am today.

17

I made it through

11

An angel's gaze

14

A Sister Never Forgets

16

Ruby's Marbles

37

What Do Operating Room Nurses Do?

14

My Little Old Jedi

20

I love this job......

23

"I hear voices"

19

Preventing FRUTI (Foley Related Urinary Tract Infection) in...

24

Error and Attitude

10

It's Just a Shower





Sponsored Links

Currently Reading This Page: 1 (0 members & 1 guests)

Interested in the hottest topics of the week? Subscribe to the Nurse-zine Newsletter.
Enter email address: