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| Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 381 | 
Jul 25, 2009, 05:02 PM
 Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by Ruby Vee  The thread isn't about workplace violence, however pervasive it may or may not be within our profession.
It wasn't difficult to see the subtle overture to workplace violence. It was pretty well laid out in the original post... All you new grads out there who are convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this...
The young lady you referred to in your original post could surely have been as block-headed as you described her to be. Don't get me wrong.
However, I have to ask myself...Is it possible to have a discussion about a difficult colleague without launching into an auxiliary discussion of unfair targeting and harassment?
I think so.
What would be the point of issuing a warning, public service announcement, general advisement (what-have-you) to all new grads, that whatever injustices they perceive are most likely nothing more than conjured projections of their own inadequacies if there weren't some investment on the part of the author to dissuade readers from considering the possibility that there is more than one contributing factor? Why present an example and then use it to make a blanket statement that in effect, trivializes a very real problem?
It just makes me wonder if it isn't a way to seek justification and support for an off-color viewpoint while hiding behind the guise of, "It's really not about that." How can one have it both ways? It's "about that" when gathering support, but not "about that" when facing criticism? Considering the subject, it's ironic, isn't it? Dare I say, hypocritical? If you're seeing bullying wherever you look, perhaps you need to look inside.
I'm pretty sure you meant 'you' in the general sense here and not the literal sense, right?
Regardless, the distinction should be made between seeing bullying wherever one looks and seeing bullying right smack dab where it lives.
 | | No. 382 |
Jul 25, 2009, 05:31 PM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
[quote=triquee;3765696]It wasn't difficult to see the subtle overture to workplace violence. It was pretty well laid out in the original post...
The young lady you referred to in your original post could surely have been as block-headed as you described her to be. Don't get me wrong.
However, I have to ask myself...Is it possible to have a discussion about a difficult colleague without launching into an auxiliary discussion of unfair targeting and harassment?
I think so.[quote]
I think so too. I also agree that lateral violence in the workplace DOES happen, and is disgusting. However, if you re-read te original post, you would see that the new grad Ruby was discussing made mistakes that weren't acceptable, and instead of accepting responsibility, and attempting to learn from both her mistakes and her more experienced coworkers, she insisted that she was doing everything right and was simply being blackballed. Hence the discussion of "unfair targeting and harrassment". No one expects new grads to know everything. Being precepted is part of the learning process. When, however, a new grad insists that she knows everything, doesn't ask questions, and makes unacceptable mistakes because of that, it is not bullying to correct them. Nor is it bullying to call them on to the carpet for it.
It was the new grad who turned it into that issue. Not Ruby. She was just relating the story to us, I would guess in hopes of showing newbies how NOT to deal with issues that will inevitably come up in the learning process. And it is so tired to use the "bitter old nurse" argument.. For every bitter old nurse, one could say there is also the obnoxious, know-it-all new grad. Both cliches are tired, and what it comes down to is that if respect is shown, respect will be given, and the learning environment flows. Nobody bullied that new grad. She made mistakes, refused to learn from them despite her preceptors trying to teach her and help her out, and got canned. Nobody's fault but her own.
| | No. 383 |
Jul 25, 2009, 06:04 PM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Even if this were allpostalworkers or alllawyers or allemployees, I think it would still be worthwhile to discuss the eradication of workplace violence.
[/quote]
Of course it's worthwhile to discuss the eradication of workplace violence, and there are a multitude of threads on that subject. This one is about the transition from school to the reality of life in your new job, and addressed to the fact that many new nurses can't adjust to that, and then leave nursing, whether by choice or not. Your reaction is indicative of what she's talking about. If you re-read the post, you will see that most of it talks about how she likes the new nurse, how much time she spent explaining things to her, how many meetings she attended to help her, and how she acted as a sympathetic ear AFTER she was fired. If that's workplace violence, bring it on!! You got hung up on the first paragraph to the point that you were unable to see the true focus of her post. So maybe when you are in nursing school, you won't get hung up on someone's TONE that you don't like, and try to see the nuggets of truth in what they are saying.
| | No. 384 |
Jul 25, 2009, 06:04 PM
Updated
Jul 25, 2009 at 06:25 PM by triquee
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by DeepFriedRN I think so too. I also agree that lateral violence in the workplace DOES happen, and is disgusting. However, if you re-read te original post, you would see that the new grad Ruby was discussing made mistakes that weren't acceptable, and instead of accepting responsibility, and attempting to learn from both her mistakes and her more experienced coworkers, she insisted that she was doing everything right and was simply being blackballed. Hence the discussion of "unfair targeting and harrassment". No one expects new grads to know everything. Being precepted is part of the learning process. When, however, a new grad insists that she knows everything, doesn't ask questions, and makes unacceptable mistakes because of that, it is not bullying to correct them. Nor is it bullying to call them on to the carpet for it.
It was the new grad who turned it into that issue. Not Ruby. She was just relating the story to us, I would guess in hopes of showing newbies how NOT to deal with issues that will inevitably come up in the learning process. And it is so tired to use the "bitter old nurse" argument.. For every bitter old nurse, one could say there is also the obnoxious, know-it-all new grad. Both cliches are tired, and what it comes down to is that if respect is shown, respect will be given, and the learning environment flows. Nobody bullied that new grad. She made mistakes, refused to learn from them despite her preceptors trying to teach her and help her out, and got canned. Nobody's fault but her own.
I understand the original post and what it was trying to infer about the specific person it addressed.
What I don't understand is why it was necessary to extrapolate the message to all new grads and trivialize workplace violence in the process. The concept in and of itself makes sense. The delivery however, raises questions.
I find it hard to differenciate between wet behind the ears, over-sensitive, self-absorbed newbies using the existence of workplace violence as a justification for bad behavior and a crutch for incompetence.....and veteran nurses, experienced enough and probably perceptive enough to know better, using the bad behavior and incompetence of newbie nurses as a justification for workplace violence.
By virtue of the seriousness of the subject matter, I view both with equal skepticism.
| | No. 385 |
Jul 25, 2009, 06:25 PM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by triquee I understand the original post and what it was trying to infer about the specific person it addressed.
What I don't understand is why it was necessary to extrapolate the message to all new grads and trivialize workplace violence in the process. The concept in and of itself makes sense. The delivery however, raises questions.
Triquee, you're right that workplace violence or harrassment should never be tolerated. But this post is about being wet behind the ears, and not being willing or able to learn, then placing the blame elsewhere. And really, this message shouldn't be directed to new grads only, the message applies to everyone, as we're not all cut out for same areas. Please quit trying to pick a fight with this, as to me it seems as if you are the one who is being negative.
No, I'm not picking the fight with you either, but please go back and read the WHOLE original post and try to see where this was coming from.
| | No. 387 |
Jul 25, 2009, 07:03 PM
Updated
Jul 25, 2009 at 07:35 PM by triquee
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by MedSurgeMess Triquee, you're right that workplace violence or harrassment should never be tolerated. But this post is about being wet behind the ears, and not being willing or able to learn, then placing the blame elsewhere. And really, this message shouldn't be directed to new grads only, the message applies to everyone, as we're not all cut out for same areas. Please quit trying to pick a fight with this, as to me it seems as if you are the one who is being negative.
No, I'm not picking the fight with you either, but please go back and read the WHOLE original post and try to see where this was coming from.
You'll find no fight here, only open discussion. Our perspectives are different. Different =/= negative. Different = Different. Nothing more. I fear you read too far into my responses...
I know it's hard not to take it personally when one's views or opinions are being scrutinized because so much of what we believe is tied up in what we experience - and experience is a very personal, individualized thing. But I promise you, it's not at all personal. I know enough to know that people are complicated and I could NEVER scratch the surface of what makes a person unique by reading a few musings they've written on the internet.
The subjects of interpersonal relationships and social behaviors are difficult ones to discuss with objectivity. And if they are discussed with too much objectivity, the discussion is often times fruitless. So, in an effort to engage in a more meaningful discussion, I may have probed a little too close to personal. No ill will intended.
| | No. 388 |
Aug 06, 2009, 01:00 AM
Updated
Aug 06, 2009 at 01:25 AM by samadams8
Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
To Ruby,
I will say that you make some points, however, the truth is simply this. People are fired everyday--and NURSEs quite often as well are fired w/o reason. In At-Will-Employment states, unless underspecified contract NO REASON IS NEEDED. And the bigger issue really isn't about an incompetent new nurse necessarily--we've only one perspective given here for heaven't sake. In general the bigger issue is nures intolerance for other nurses--novice or expert nurses, mind you.
Listen, firing people b/c a few in the crowd see the newcomer (novice nurse or expert nurse--both can be open targets--especially early on in the new position) as a threat or b/c these few decide during one of their intimate group sessions that they don't like so and so--well, this is not a decent or reasonable reason to complain to the manager so that she might fire the person or not give the person a decent chance after the probationary period. But it happens; and it happens a lot.
No offense, but this happens sooooo much in nursing. There is a lot of cut-throat antics in the field. I've been in it for 2 decades. . .it's really there--and if you've been in it for a while then you should know this too.
What's more, I've seen a lot of substandard or even bozo nurses get the accolades and support of the "you fit in our crowd" nurses. Some of them amazingly even get promoted. Well actually I have seen this more than a few times.
And have you never heard of the Peter Principle and the like? Sorry nurses, but it is reality time. I've seen not-too-swift RNs get off of orientation to be praised, whilst really smart and caring nurses can get brushed aside or totally weeded out. I have seen it many times.
No one is saying that pure and continued incompetence should be tolerated. I will say if you really put everyone's practice under the same harsh and intensely magnified scope, you would find a whole lot of stuff that they ALL need to work on. Nurse professionals MUST strive to apply balance and wisdom and true fairness and understanding. That really is the ultimate issue. Many folks that are so hypercritical could not withstand that same hypercritical inspection upon their own practice for very long. It is so amazing how that is.
Reality is our friend. We nurses really need to embrace it.
| | No. 389 |
Aug 06, 2009, 01:13 AM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Kudos triquee. . .
and it is not merely new grads and novice nurses that must endure the ridiculous amounts of horiztonal and vertical violence in the workplace. Trust me on this. It's all about who is influencing whom within the particular cultural setting/unit/floor/whatever. Sometimes you can rise above it, at other times no. But either way, any decent nurse as a professional and a human being should strive for objectivity and respectful understanding. Nurses need to direct others to the desired behaviors without all the weeding or out and out frying in the workplace. As professionals, nurses should NEVER tolerate this, or just look the other way, so that they keep their status, or so that they don't get picked on next. But do you know how often that happens? Sadly not nearly enough in the field of nursing.
And that is the biggest tragedy overall. Incompetent people, when evaluated objectively, will come to the service, and they will either gain the necessary competence or they will leave or be let go.
But that really ISN'T what this thread is about. It is about unprofessional, unnecessary horizontal/vertical violence in the hospitals and other workplaces for nurses. Don't kid yourselves. It truly is a HUGE proble. If not in your unit or facility, well then consider yourselves truly, truly blessed. Overall there is way too much of it. The only reason it is being even more tolerated right now is b/c of the economy and the cut backs on nurse-employee spaces or hiring freezes. Things will get really bad in nursing again--in terms of severe need for good staffing. When that happens, hopefully a fair amount of this kind of behavior will come to a hault.
Until then and thereafter, please strive for objectivity, fairness, understanding, and respect. And remember your practice as you were coming along as a nurse. You know it was NOT perfect. And respect differences among expert nurses--different experiences will provide different perspectives. But also respect the learning curve for novice nurses--and yes, they need to accept that they are novices and they MUST learn to take truly constructive criticism. But the operative words there are truly constructive. Sadly too many nurses don't have a clue what that really means.
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