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| No. 340 | 
May 10, 2009, 03:43 PM
 Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by samadams8  We have to get real as to what is in general a negative and detrimental function of our profession.
Nursing in general tends to be capricious and build up only those that are "likeable" within the group. It doesn't seek to support and mentor those that are dedicated to nursing that may be somewhat different in thinking for the dominant group. Medicine does a much better job at mentoring those in medicine--regardless of differences in thinking.
You know, I have to honestly say that I've not ever seen this...the only times that we've had someone in our group who we all didn't get along with it was b/c their incompetence was a hazard to all the patients on the floor. Their patients, just b/c they were the most likely to have a poorer outcome by having a total nincompoop take care of them, and our patients, b/c of the time we had to spend away from them fixing problems with their patients. And I have to qualify that and say that even those who were incompetent, if they were willing to expend the energy to try and improve themselves and not spend all their energy in rationalizing why nothing was their fault, we do get along with in general...and are more than willing to try and help along. It does take some people a little longer to warm up to them, which can be a shame, but there's usually enough of us there to say "lighten up and give them a chance, they're trying, for gosh's sake!" that it works out well in the end.
The two we had most recently, one of them I really liked on a personal level but she just couldn't get it together. The other thought that she was God's gift to nursing even though she couldn't adequately assess for cardiac issues despite working on a tele floor for over a year...and yes, management was aware of how bad she was, and put her into a temporary charge position. This person, for just one example, failed to recognize when a patient went into a third degree heart block and then refused to call the doctor for FIVE HOURS while the patient sat with a HR in the 30's...and also failed to assess them any more often than every four hours, her rationale being "he's on the monitor, if he codes I'll see it". Both ended up leaving and the one who was God's gift told our manager that we were "too cliquey" despite the fact that she was the only person, out of over thirty people, who wasn't gelling with our group...obviously there was nothing wrong with her attitude, it was the rest of us who had a problem.
One of my problems is that in general, I try to get along with everyone...even the ones who are incompetent and show no signs of changing, and those who just need a few more months (or even years) of guidance to get up to speed...which can lead to me being in uncomfortable positions sometimes. Have you ever had someone that you get along with really well, but always leaves a disaster for the next shift, ask you flat out how bad they are to follow? That stretches my diplomatic skills to the limit, b/c I won't lie to them. But I figure that if they're asking, they already recognize that there is a problem and are willing to listen to honest advice from someone that they have a rapport with (otherwise they wouldn't be asking) to try and get better.
Sorry so wordy, I'm a little on the tired side right now...it brings out the verbosity   | | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 342 |
May 10, 2009, 09:30 PM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
I have read all the pages in this thread throughout the course of the day today (some I've skimmed, I'll admit...it's a long thread). I think, unless you've seen the type of nurse the OP describes, you can't fathom it. Simple as that. As soon as I read it, I knew EXACTLY what she was talking about. Common sense and book smarts are two totally different things, for one...getting through school and passing your boards will NOT make you a good nurse. That is part of it, IMO. Passing the buck and not owning up to the fact that it's just plain YOUR fault that you're not good enough is another. "They're all just jealous of me because I'm smarter/prettier/younger/thinner" is not why you were let go, sweetheart. Sorry. Wake up and smell it.
I worked with this type of nurse. One that couldn't connect the dots from point A to point B, no matter what. She was going to kill somebody if she stayed in her positon (luckily for us, she didn't, they let her go). She had a post op patient one night, who throughout their frequent VS had an increasing HR and a decreasing BP. Any nurse can watch that trend and know what it means. One of them by itself can be benign. The two together are classic. This nurse was off orientation and working by herself, so no one else was aware of the situation. She didn't pass on the info of the trend in report, either, so when the night nurse went in to do her first assessment, the patient was unresponsive and they couldn't get a BP on her. They called a code and took her back to surgery, where they found a liter of blood in her abdomen. After a LAP CHOLE. She'd had a clip come loose. This wasn't in an ICU, this was a med/surg floor (so, you don't only find this lack of critical thinking a problem in an ICU). She made many mistakes since the time she started, but none apparently were "big" enough to warrant firing her. Guess they had to wait for the "big" one to be able to act. Well, that was it. No matter how many times she was corrected, redirected, however you want to word it, she JUST DIDN'T GET IT. You can't justify or excuse not realizing what was going on with that patient.
| | No. 343 |
May 11, 2009, 11:31 PM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by cherrybreeze I have read all the pages in this thread throughout the course of the day today (some I've skimmed, I'll admit...it's a long thread). I think, unless you've seen the type of nurse the OP describes, you can't fathom it. Simple as that. As soon as I read it, I knew EXACTLY what she was talking about. Common sense and book smarts are two totally different things, for one...getting through school and passing your boards will NOT make you a good nurse. That is part of it, IMO. Passing the buck and not owning up to the fact that it's just plain YOUR fault that you're not good enough is another. "They're all just jealous of me because I'm smarter/prettier/younger/thinner" is not why you were let go, sweetheart. Sorry. Wake up and smell it.
I worked with this type of nurse. One that couldn't connect the dots from point A to point B, no matter what. She was going to kill somebody if she stayed in her positon (luckily for us, she didn't, they let her go). She had a post op patient one night, who throughout their frequent VS had an increasing HR and a decreasing BP. Any nurse can watch that trend and know what it means. One of them by itself can be benign. The two together are classic. This nurse was off orientation and working by herself, so no one else was aware of the situation. She didn't pass on the info of the trend in report, either, so when the night nurse went in to do her first assessment, the patient was unresponsive and they couldn't get a BP on her. They called a code and took her back to surgery, where they found a liter of blood in her abdomen. After a LAP CHOLE. She'd had a clip come loose. This wasn't in an ICU, this was a med/surg floor (so, you don't only find this lack of critical thinking a problem in an ICU). She made many mistakes since the time she started, but none apparently were "big" enough to warrant firing her. Guess they had to wait for the "big" one to be able to act. Well, that was it. No matter how many times she was corrected, redirected, however you want to word it, she JUST DIDN'T GET IT. You can't justify or excuse not realizing what was going on with that patient.
Nah. Not talking about someone that is truly incompetent on a regular basis. Every situation and person needs to be considered on her/his own and its own merit. It's hard to tell what the whole picture is by way of one's person's biased representation. That's why you need to strive for the most consistent, well-documented, and objective measures possible. In my experience, often that is bypassed.
Many a nurse has been let go for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with incompetence and safety issues.
BTW, the patient could have well been hypotensive and tachycardic b/c he or she was intravascularly dry. Worked a lot of surgery, and have seen it many, many times. Nonetheless, the nurse was negligent for not making other nurses and the physician and surgeon aware, period. You know, I've worked in many critical care areas; but I believe people underestimate how sick the patients are that come to the floor and how closely they need monitoring. I remember working Med-surg and Tele. Those patients could crash quickly, and back in those days, we would have WAY TOO many patients. It was unreal. Frankly I am amazed that many of us worked the area as long as we did. We'd often joke about have little mini-ICUs with all our other needy med-surg patients.
I so hear what you are saying. There are many possible perspectives here. Again, that is precisely why we need to incorporate and maintain the most objective measures when evaluating nurse practice. I am unfortunately no longer surprised at the amount of capriciousness and subjectivity that goes into evaluation processes for both new and experienced nurses. Most of nursing could use a major overhaul in this department.
| | No. 344 |
May 12, 2009, 08:28 AM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by Straydandelion I think these tips for Forbes for business professionals can be adjusted for any profession to some extent..also nursing: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7588718/page/1
IMO if you try your best attempting to learn and have a positive attitude it will go a long way. If still problems with a preceptor, ask for a different one if possible, yet if problems with more then one it could be YOUR problem and not anyone elses. With plenty of others waiting for that particular job the manager has to decide how long before this person can be relatively self-sufficient and contribute to the team. If they decide one with more experience/energy/healthier what-ever would help more then you.. that is why people can loose their jobs. Some things we can't help i.e. the health issue..however some we can do a lot about : study, listen, learn.
great article! thanks!
i am forever wondering how people can be so unprofessional at work.
i was raised in the working world by my father. i worked for him from the time i got out of typing class until he sent me to nursing school 15 yrs later. although he was my father, he was very strict and expected HIS work ethic to be OUR work ethic as his employees. the company was small so we were very much like a family but we all knew his expectations. what he taught me was professionalism. i actually worked for and with both of my parents and shared an office with my mother. when we were at work, we worked. family business and family problems were not spoken of. you arrived to work on time. you were to be dressed professionally. every customer was to be treated like they were our only customer. you did not call in. period. i've seen him work from a wheelchair when he broke his leg and then again when he had knee surgery after a skiing accident. and he hasnt mellowed over the years either. almost 2 yrs ago he had an accident at work (he sold his business to his competition and now runs their shop) and his hand was cut off. he was in the hospital for 3 days after they were able to sew it back on and i was arguing with him2 days after that that NO he could NOT go back to work until it was healed.
i realize that we was a hard man to work for with unrelenting standards but there isnt a day that goes by that i am not grateful for the work ethic he gave me.
i am constantly amazed and dumbfounded at people i work with, especially the young people. they have NO work ethic. they have no loyalty to their company or job. well, very few do anyway. anything that happens is never their fault. there is no accountability for themselves. it's always somebody else's fault. and of course they are fired for "no reason".
drives me nuts!
| | No. 346 |
May 12, 2009, 05:56 PM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by Not_A_Hat_Person Employees have no loyalty to their company because companies have no loyalty to their employees. When you can be replaced at the drop of a hat for any reason, or no reason, why should you be loyal?
i dont disagree with your statement one bit. i certainly feel no loyalty to the company that owns our building. but i do feel a certain loyalty to my coworkers and to my patients.
but there is a certain professionalism that young people do NOT have these days. they just plain don't care. they don't care if they constantly call in causing their peers to work doubly hard to care for the patients, they don't care about anything but themselves that i can see. for example, what in the world would make a person think it is OK to talk on their cell phone WHILE they are performing care on a patient? it's a common form of amusement to see what these young people are wearing when they come in for an interview even. they don't even have enough respect to dress nicely! they sit and chomp and pop gum during the interview for goodness sakes!
thats what i just dont get.
| | No. 347 |
May 13, 2009, 12:01 AM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
From Southernbeegirl: i was raised in the working world by my father. i worked for him from the time i got out of typing class until he sent me to nursing school 15 yrs later. although he was my father, he was very strict and expected HIS work ethic to be OUR work ethic as his employees.
Ya know, I never even thought about this about myself. I also started working under my dad when I was young...about twelve or thirteen, on the weekends and later on at night as well. Wonder if that has something to do with my level of expectations as well?
| | No. 348 |
May 13, 2009, 07:39 AM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason"
Also worked with my dad, like the others professionalism began with punctuality and procedeeded to hard work and keeping one's word. HOWEVER, my mother was always late and disdained authority. How did these two ever get together?
Anyway, although I always did my best and worked hard, he would always say if you weren't my daughter I'd fire you for lateness. Meanwhile, as the only girl I was abused by the guys who worked for him. I was paid alot, but pulled my weight and then some! Late to him meant not onsite and ready to work at start time. It was your responsibility to show up early, drink your coffee, read your paper-BUT BE READY at start TO GO!
I have always worked hard, but haven't always been ontime. That changed when I was a boss and I saw first hand the way it disrupts the planned work day. Then, like him I was always early.
I think you learn by those around you and the expectations placed upon you in childhood, however sometimes it's just maturity.
But habits can be changed, an inability to comprehend why something is done when patient safety is involved goes way beyond that! Some people were not meant to be in healthcare or other jobs. Just because I liked to build with erector sets and legos, didn't mean I could be an engineer without a base knowledge of physics and calculus. It's nice to want....but not always realistic.
M
| | No. 349 |
May 13, 2009, 09:15 AM
Re: "Fired for NO Reason" Originally Posted by Not_A_Hat_Person Employees have no loyalty to their company because companies have no loyalty to their employees. When you can be replaced at the drop of a hat for any reason, or no reason, why should you be loyal?
I agree with out here. People complain that the younger generation is not "loyal". But where do they get that stance from?
I wouldnt turn not being loyal to a company into an ageism thing either. Ask the nurses who are vets and are being forced to stay in their positions by the economy if "loyalty" is the way to go. Most young people, myself included, are being told to use the market to their advantage whenever possible. Loyalty, yes, is more common among the generations ahead of us, but a great many of them regret it and tell the younger generation not to sell themselves short.
Thats wisdom speaking. Older generation see's loyalty is a dead end, informs younger genreation, and they stop giving it so freely. The lack of loyalty in the nursing field today has as much to do with younger nurses not believing in it as vet nurses teaching people it is not the best avenue.
I'd also add, there are a great many vet nurses being pushed out the door by hospitals who are trying to keep the administrative pay scale from being touched. Wonder how they feel about loyalty.
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