Euthanasia/Spirituality - page 9
I am a member of this board, but rarely post. I have a few questions that I would like to ask. How many of you believe in Physician Assisted Suicide? I believe that a patient should have that right... Read More
Aug 25, '02Originally posted by ohbet
micro,Id rather look at the chick
but digressing again.....
micro and out, because I am going to siesta right about now........
there is a sense about life and many things......
including the time of illness and death.......
and when the subject must be discussed and thought on more seriously............
keep on posting..........
micro is back.........
Aug 25, '02First yes I have many years of oncology experience so I have seen many people die slow lingering deaths. I hope if I ever am faced with that I can find a DR. who will help me die.
Secondly I have brought back several patients who coded and told me they rose to the corner of the room, watched and heard what we said and they saw the bright light and desired to return. They both said they had immense pain upon returning.
Aug 25, '02bbelle,
In addition to your wish not to be left in torment in your final days, Im sure their are millions of other people on this planet who would be alot more comfortable knowing if their day came when life became intolerable because of illnes and beyond the help of interventions to restore the quality of their life, the Dr. caring for them would do the right and merciful thing by respecting the wishes to leave a world that now has become a tormenting hell and take an active part in that passing.
God Bless.Last edit by ohbet on Aug 25, '02
Aug 26, '02This is very deep thread. I am so touched by all of your threads. I use to work in LTC facility and when a patient is dying I feel sad for them to go but I like many others on this thread believe that there is an other side. To take it a step farther I don't believe there is a hell in a sense the bible but our lives we live with ups and downs dealing with negativity to prepare ourselves for our passing. I believe no one should suffer it is your right to die how ever you wish. I am not to keen on assisted suicide but if one request it I do not judge them. Knowing there is far better place dying doesn't seem to be a bad thing. You are happy that your loved one is going to a better place but missing them like something awful. Whatever each one of us believe it is comforting to know that we respect each other and care. :-)
Aug 26, '02Teshiee,if you believe that "it is your right to die how ever you wish" but your not to keen on assisted suicide,and is active euthanasia continues to be erroneouslly misconcieved as "murder" in this country and continues Not to be a legal,moral and spiritual right in this country then millions of people will continue to suffer needlessly,have their dignity taken from them and not be able to die as they wish.
Aug 26, '02Hi Renerian. Patients who experience the "watching everything that is going on when they are coding" is out of body experience.
And I firmly believe that it does happen. Scientists, and some doctors do not believe in it. They believe that it is all in the patients mind. BS!
I am a very spiritual person and I firmly believe in OBE, astral travel, visits form the other side, etc.
It is sad for those who do not believe in these things, because if a patient experiences any of them, like the one you talked about, and they tell their doctor or other health care professional they get told "oh you were just dreaming, or it was because of the meds you were given." And even some of the Chaplins don't believe. I'm sure that these days most of them do, but there are still a few left that think it is the work of the devil.
Aug 26, '02Hi ohbet. There are many more physician's these days that will honor a patients wishes thank God, but way back when some of them didn't even tell there patient(s) that they were going to die.
A couple of months ago I was watching a movie on The True Stories channel and that was what the movie was about. The nurse didn't think it was right not telling the patient that they were going to die. She would sometimes tell them anyway and because of that she lost her job with the hospital she worked at.
About a year later she started a hospice in her community. I don't remeber if she was the one who founded Hospice, or if she just started one in her community. Any how it was a good movie.
Talk to ya later.
Aug 26, '02Bbelle I do believe in out of body experience......I had one once. when I almost died..........drug reaction.........I told my friend what she said and she said I was blue and not talking but I was in my mind.........and I told her what she said to me........she was shocked........
Aug 26, '02That is cool, the out of body experience that is, not that you almost died.
Have you ever seen or heard of Sylvia Browne or John Edward?
I think that is really cool. I would love to get a reading with John Edward, but don't have the time or money right now. Someday.
Aug 26, '02Can I suggest that you save your money for something worthwhile, rather than go to see this admittedly skilful showman.
Check out www.skeptic.com for details on how he does it, and which stage magicians he has borrowed techniques from.
"When you can fake sincerity, you've got it made!"
Aug 26, '02donmurray
I have a friend going to a show I guess with John Edwards. I had never heard of him until she told me who he was.
Aug 26, '02Originally posted by BBelle
Patients who experience the "watching everything that is going on when they are coding" is out of body experience.
And I firmly believe that it does happen. Scientists, and some doctors do not believe in it. They believe that it is all in the patients mind.
Aug 26, '02ohbet you miss my point. I simply believe that the majority of the time people are afraid at the end and fear what is coming at the end because they fear the pain. We have the means to deliver appropriate pain control, but often do not use it. Fear of a patient's addition, fear of "assisting" them to the other side with too much pain med. Docs fear of getting a smack for prescribing too much pain med. I believe it is that issue that needs to be focused on. I also believe that too many times we save people who should have been allowed to go to God to begin with, but with our high tech and the keen will to use it no matter what, oftentimes that decisison to save someone turns out to be a nightmare for the patient and the family.
Let me explain something, 3 years ago my husband's 15 year old daughter died. She had been born with multiple birth defects, and lived much longer than anyone believed she would. She had terrible scholiosis in her back, and ultimately her left hip actually rested on her rib cage. This pressure eventually caused resp. failure as well as heart failure. The last month of her life I took care of her, her own mother felt she could not handle it. Since I have never lost a child of my own, thank God, who was I to judge that? I simply did what needed to be done. Until Sam got ill at the last she had been a sunny little girl, while she never was able to talk she could express herself in nonverbal ways. She loved to have mine and David's son sit on her lap or play in bed with her. He was 3 when she died. The last week she began grimacing and guarding, and I asked the primary doc for liquid morphine. It helped until her bowels no longer were functioning enough to be able to get the med into her. At that point we switched to Sub Q morphine, she was very thin. The last day of her life, I gave her morphine whenever she appeared painful, at the very end to make sure she was not thrashing and gasping for air like she had done prior to me getting out to the house, I was giving low doses about every 30 minutes. She quieted, and began breathing slower, but easier. She never woke up again. When she died I was holding her in my arms. She appeared very peaceful without pain or struggle. I can say easily this was the hardest and most emotionally wretching time I have had in my nursing career. But I know that I was able to keep Sam pain free and she died peacefully. Did I help her slip over the edge? I don't know, and I don't care. I only cared that she had appropriate pain control. If that control helped her go to the other side peacefully than so be it. If anything prior to this I blamed myself for not seeing her symptoms earlier and insisting that she get morphine earlier. However she lived with her mother and we did not see her daily. But I felt a deep guilt for that for a long time. But I would never feel it was appropriate to actively participate in euthanasia. I believe it is murder. If someone really wants to commit suicide, for that is what it truly is, then that is something they can information on from the hemlock society. I don't think that is wrong, it is not even wrong if the family wants to assist if that is their loved one's wish and they feel comfortable with it. However I don't think it should involve the healthcare community. Easing death, which morphine can do quite well is a different thing than actively killing someone. Yes, I do equate it with murder with Dr. Kevorkian as the poster boy. It simply goes against the grain of my ethics and morals.I know others who feel differently, some of them are my friends. But my opinion is otherwise. It is possible to give people a pain free as well as fear free death, and to not use it is what is wrong. Take the fear of being in horrid pain at the end away and then people would likely not be so afraid of that they would opt to kill themselves.
I tell you my story because I want you to understand I have gone through this on a very personal level. I could never have forgiven myself if I had let Sam suffer the pain she was experiencing, but on the other hand I could never have forgiven myself had I knowingly given her a lethal dose of morphine. I know, I know, she couldn't make that decision for herself, but neither can many others make an informed decision when appropriate choices are never offered as choices.
And PS for BBelle, the nurse in that movie is the one who started hospice.