Euthanasia/Spirituality

[BBelle]

I am a member of this board, but rarely post. I have a few questions that I would like to ask.

How many of you believe in Physician Assisted Suicide? I believe that a patient should have that right if there prognosis is terminal and there is no hope of recovery.

Secondly, how many of you believe in the Other Side? You know, if a patient says that they see a bright light with there loved ones waiting for them. And if you do believe, do you talk about it with your terminal patients if they ask you about it.

I firmly believe in the Other Side, I believe that when we pass away it is just our body that is gone, our spirit moves on to the Other Side, where we are happy and care free. Belle

[live4today, RN]

Originally posted by babs_rn

While I generally do not agree with the idea of ACTIVELY hastening one's own death with physician-assisted (or any other kind of) suicide, I do believe in being allowed to refuse treatment and to die naturally and I do not have a problem with keeping the morphine drip going enough to sedate someone and basically "ease them out" when death is imminent and excruciating and there's a DNR in place so it's expected. And by "imminent" I mean THAT DAY. I believe that ethically, just because we CAN do something (stop a life or prolong it) doesn't mean that we SHOULD.

Yes, I believe in an afterlife. I believe that heaven is the presence of God and that hell is the absence of Him and of all hope, and I believe that what happens to us in the afterlife is based on what we choose in life. If we choose to live in His presence, we will die in it. I think that to not believe in a higher power with a plan is impossible to imagine when you consider the intricacies of our own anatomy and how the systems work together and compensate for each other. That took intelligence to create. And I believe that Intelligence cares what happens to us.

One quick story from about 12 years ago on a night shift (don't these things always happen on nights?) tele floor - I was charge nurse: There was a man who was dying in a room in a corner right off the nurses' station. He had cirrhosis, hepatic encephalopathy, mean and ornery as a snake. Maybe it was because of the disease process, I don't know because what happened stunned me. It was an unusually quiet night, (35 patients - floor was full) everybody was actually ASLEEP - no TVs on. There were 4 nurses on that night, and we were actually able to make our rounds and sit down and chart on schedule. Well, at about 5am we were sitting together charting our 4am rounds when I heard the most amazing sound. Impossible to describe but it was a quick (half-second) sound of the most beautiful vocal chord you could imagine. A soprano choir. Came from the direction of that man's room. I looked up and said, "did you hear that?" Only one of the other nurses did hear it, and said, "Yeah, sounded kind of like angels singing, didn't it?" And it did. Went back to charting and back to rounds when the RT found me at about 5:30 to inform me that this patient was gone. And he was. And I will always believe that we had the privilege of hearing the angels coming for him that night.

Death is a natural part of life. Our society wants to avoid it at all costs and I think that's a shame. There is so much more to our existence than this life in this world and to deny that is to sell ourselves very, very short.

Barb

Barb........beautifully written, and so inspiring too. :kiss Thanks for taking the time to share this here. I enjoyed it, and it has blessed me. :)

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

What a personally timely post for me...my father died last Monday after stating he didn't want to take his meds (for CHF) anymore. He quit taking them on a Sunday and died peacefully eight days later. We had a hospice sitter with him at the time. He was awake and alert until his death and had consciously made this decision. It was very hard on my sister and me, but we honored his wishes.

As to the "other side" of course I believe in this.

[duckie]

I totally agree with keeping someone comfortable until the end but I could never take part in ending a life. We give pain medications to provide comfort and thankfully it usually helps the patient rest. I don't want my beloved patients thrashing about in pain when I know I can help them. As for the other side, I absolutely believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe at the hour of our death, we are surrounded by Angels, and they take us to the Father. I say this for I have been touching the hands of many as they drew their last breath. I have felt both terrifying fear and a calm warmth of peace, at the prospect of meeting the Lord. That is why, as a nurse, I do my best to help prepare them for their journey and try to help them find peace if I can. And I believe "the light" is the tunnel to the Father for our judgement day and to determine our fate. I have a song that I sing gently, into the ears of many of my residents as they are nearing their end. WHEN I COME TO THE RIVER, AT THE ENDING OF DAY, AND THE LAST RELM OF DARKNESS I SEE. THEY'LL BE SOMEBODY WATING TO SHOW ME THE WAY, I WON'T HAVE TO CROSS JORDAN ALONE. I WON'T HAVE TO CROSS JORDAN ALONE. JESUS DIED ALL MY SINS TO ATONE. WHEN THE DARKNESS I SEE, HE'LL BE WAITING FOR ME, I WON'T HAVE TO CROSS JORDAN ALONE.

[mario_ragucci]

When we, as individual orgasmisms, achieve cellular death, we're gone. As a new-bee in health-care, the hardest part is seeing folks on their way out. No one wants cellular death, and no one likes the march of time. If you prop up on god or some other life after death conjecture you will confuse yourself/suffer with, inherenty knowing the end is the end. One day, we as a species will understand this, and halt all backing of that stuff.

I don't know if anyone has ever hooked up an EEG to a euthenasia. Are there brain waves after the heart stops? How long?? What kind? Also, cloning releases death, because if you had an exact you every 5 years, 6 people...all you...spread 5 years apart. The afterlife is a no brainer, and it's a comfort to know for me that I will end. We are all free to die. I'm sorry :-(

[micro, RN]

euthanasia, solyent green, the end of life, heaven or hell.........

cellular death, death of a human being,

have seen it too much, but it is part of this thing called life.....

and when you see cellular death occuring when a person is living....

and to speak to the original threader of this thread and the original question.........

I also used to think Dr. Jack......had a point, but then Dr. Jack went insane

point for Dr. Jack mute.........

physician assisted suicide.....

well it would take a GREAT CHANGE IN THE HIPROCRATIC OATH and also a great change in the health care system that exists in this old usa and the entire world........$$$$$(who has it and who doesn't)

but then again, I fear the risk of starting something that you cannot stop.......that very slippery slope.........(understatement)

anybody remember the movies

"Solyent Green"

"Silent Running"

and there are so many more works both fiction and nonfiction that were excellently done, but i know this is past work and this dates me.........

it just brings up much question.....

edittin today as will address my thoughts.....in just one post at least at this time.....

belief in the afterlife is almost choice and not a fact, but there is much fact in the death of a sentient being..........

but micro must always give to the microscopic % that there is always more.........

I question everything.........

The answer which none of us may ever see.....is that science is the entire answer.......

when the brain reaches its maximum potential.......we are just past using 10%.........

when they discover genetics/environment = who you are.........

belief in things unseen are not wrong.....in fact...none will ever know if they are right, until they also have passed into

"that night"

micro's other side...................

sorry, all.......

euthanasia has been a big debate issue since micro's very young age.........

I have always been fascinated and intrigued with the ethical and humanistic issues that are in this human existence

like when is enough enough....

abortion, enough said

who deserves to live and to die.....

---this could be addressed at any age or level of ability or

far worse.........

quality of life vs quantity of life.....

capital punishment yea or neh and all the ??? inbetween

a person's right to choose......not the system and not the remaining significant others in the person's life.........

is there a "class" system even here in this great USA........

why are people labelled in this life and especially in health care.....

I am glad to not know, but know it is a negative when I hear other "health care professional" refer to a patient, etc as a "gomer" I don't want to know, because it is probably what I think it is.........

What ever happened to the ideal of equality.....know it may not be a reality, but why not at least keep it as an ideal..........

cloning.......

genetic research.........

child abuse.....to all degrees(enough said).....why not more done to the offenders and to protect the child.....

prenatal testing of the fetus......this scares me.....what if the fetus is not the perfect child.....what decision are being discussed.........tough choices.........but, no I will not..................

these kind of issues fascinate and ENRAGE me......but I am not knowledgeable to debate all as many here are, but if you want an emotive response= me

.....but anybody take it further.........

but what ethical, moral, humane floodgates the above and many more open......or did i say unethical.........

enough for now.........

micro

beauty and the beast.........

what are the answers

just talking from the micro side....of life:stone :stone :stone

[mario_ragucci]

Your cellular; Get over it; I'm sorry again; no disrespect unto you; people aren't bacteria/unicellular; oneway trip to heaven; resurrection; amen.

[dedicated to micro in Her infinate wisdom and grace]

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

I used to think that I was pro-euthanasia, but after witnessing a fully alert gentleman with end stage ALS being taken off the vent to die , I am not so sure. It did not sit well with me, even though it was done at his own request and with his family's agreement. Did he and his family take the easy way out ? Was there some divine purpose in his suffering that was cut short?

On the other hand, I have worked in units where it seemed that patients were kept alive for the sole purpose of providing an income for the physician and/or the facility that "cared" for them.

The thing that concerns me in this for profit health care system is that if euthansia was legal, would insurance companies encourage it when the care became too expensive ?

[Anaclaire]

I used to lean in favor of assisted suicide, but after much thought on the subject I am no longer in support of it for myself. I now believe that I will pass at the time I am supposed to pass, and that my illness or whatever is causing my prolonged death, is a life lesson that either I must learn or may be something which can benefit people close to me. It's a very deep subject and tremendously difficult to put into words. I however would support anyone else's belief in it because I feel we all have a right to our feelings and beliefs.

As far as the other side/heaven goes, I BELIEVE fully and completely! Without a doubt!

[micro, RN]

Originally posted by mario_ragucci

Your cellular; Get over it; I'm sorry again; no disrespect unto you; people aren't bacteria/unicellular; oneway trip to heaven; resurrection; amen.

worth the repeat

{dedicated to Mario, in His true science and space}

:zzzzz BBelle good thought provoking questions and good thread.....you should post more often.....

have to get my cup of coffee, refill time

[semstr]

But how long do you want to held a patient with ALS (as an example) on a vent? weeks? months? years?

Is that an assisted suizide? when the patient asks to be relieved, when he knows he can't live without a vent? can't move himself, do nothing? not even talk and write?

I took care for quite a few people with ALS and similar illnesses in the Netherlands, and I always felt terrible , because there was nothing we could do to help them feel better. Thsi was of course a long time before euthanasia became legal over there.

Although I am not absolutely in favor of it, in some cases I am.

[ritataillefer]

I am in favor of physician assisted suicide. This topic has interested me for quite some time and I wrote a VERY long paper regarding this issue while completing my BSN.

I did a lot of research regarding the matter and I believe that it can be done safely.. and humanely. There are concerns of physicians "taking things into their own hands" but with proper guidelines and policies, this could be averted.

I believe that all individuals have a right to make decisions regarding their care. And as a nurse, I respect my patient's decision.

I do understand the concern about the "slippery slope" that we face when discussing this issue. But again, if the issue was addressed, researched and well planned, there would be limited problems. Ie: the patient would have to be terminal, the patient would have to be able to be "sound of mind". The decision would have to go through some type of committee,...

Bottom line, I have seen too many people suffer needlessly (like a patient I"m taking care of today... 38 years old... in horrible pain).

We will have to look to other countries to see if the policies and guidelines work...

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Howdy yall

from deep in the heat of texas

My job is to take care of people and their individual needs. But like any other nurse, there is no way in our society at present to condone assisting others to pass on, and to approach it is a breach of ethics amd mores.

And Mario you need some help