Ethics Violation-Would you remain silent or challenge the system? - page 6

Today I was labeled a "whistleblower and tattletail because I, along with numerous other students, witnessed a table of individuals cheating on an exam in our Anatomy and Physiology class which is a... Read More

  1. by   HealingHands327
    lol, I really should be studying nursing geriatrics, but i couldn't help but reply. Rebox's opinion on cheating is shady, and he gives extreme rare examples of someone who is caring for family etc and didn't have time to study as an excuse for cheating.

    Cheating is a symptom of dishonesty, and they know the risks involved with cheating. So if they get caught they brought it onto themselves. No it does not mean 100 % they will be bad nurses later on BUT the risks are higher that they will behave unethically as a future nurse and if it was up to me, i wouldn't want them as my nurse either, if they cheated through school and learned nothing. We are talking about taking care of people's lives, something that cannot be replaced by money, which comes with great responsibility.

    I've been both an A student and a D student, and the amount of knowledge between the two is profound.:trout:
  2. by   BabyRN2Be
    I agree in that you did the right thing. The least this professor could do is have one of his GA's (graduate assistants if you are at a larger university) sit in on the test.

    As others have said, you need to go up the food chain, write a letter to the department chair explaining what happened, along with the professor's reaction to what you witnessed. The least it could do is go into his personnel file but I hope that someone higher up listens.

    I feel for you because I've been in this situation before, and you did the right thing. It's shows you have a lot of courage.
  3. by   casi
    I say way to go to the OP!

    People cheat for a lot of different reasons, they may have a sob story, or they may just be lazy. Either way it doesn't make blatantly cheating okay! If you're going to make the decision to cheat you need to be able to face the consequences of your actions when and if you get caught.

    There are plenty of A and B students who single parents of two working full time and going to school full time who ARE NOT cheating.
  4. by   tddowney
    "Lie and cheat when caring for patients and, if proven, your license is revoked. Rightly so!"

    The consequences may be much more than losing one's license. A civil suit is likely, and criminal charges are more common these days.
  5. by   reebok
    Quote from Jolie
    Since you addressed this directly to me, I will respond.

    I am not perfect. I have made mistakes and done wrong, and have been held responsible for my wrong-doings, ever since I was a little kid. I suspect that has a lot to do with my sense of values and honor as an adult. My religious faith teaches compassion for the sinner who CONFESSES, asks for forgiveness, forgives others, and does pennance, all of which is missing from the OP's situation.

    Of course there are situations in which it is appropriate to "bend" the rules, such as the daughter speeding to get her ill father to the ER. There is no evidence that any of the cheaters in the original post had any extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test. If they did, it was their responsibility to discuss those with the prof BEFORE the test, not cheat their way thru the test and beg for mercy later (which they have not had to do, aparently due to the lack of integrity on the prof's part).

    Please don't lecture me about employees who can combine common sense with nursing intervention rather than following the rule book. I've been there many times, and done just that. I've arranged for a family Baptism celebration for a long-term preemie, even though "rules" didn't allow it. It just took a little prior planning, something the baby's family was happy to work on. I've accompanied newborns to ICU to visit their critically-ill mothers, even though rules didn't permit it. Again, just a little prior planning with the ICU staff. The difference here is that the "rule-breaking" was PLANNED in advance so that it wouldn't place anyone in harm's way, a far cry from cheating on a test.
    So it's okay to bend rules only if its planned in advance. I think according to Law Premeditated murder would give a more harsh charge than someone who reacted out of passion.

    Ignorantium Argumentum: There is no evidence that any of the cheaters had any extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.

    There is no evidence that there wasn't any cheaters with extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.
  6. by   pickledpepperRN
    Arranging a baptism in the NICU and helping a critically ill mother see her baby are examples of patient advocacy.

    We once went through channels to allow a dying patients beloved dog visit. The ethics committe actually helped expedite a new policy that basically required the dog be bathed the same as therapy dogs and only visit his master. There wasn't a dry eye when we made that reunion happen.

    Cheating on a test and dishonest charting are NOT patient advocacy.
    Once the supervisor and I reported a nurse for charting for the entire shift. At 11:00 pm I was sent to replace him. He had charted vital sighns, medication administration, and even I&O up until 6:00 am!

    He lost his license.
  7. by   IMustBeCrazy
    The amount of energy being expended by some posters here supporting cheating is mind-boggling at best. The analogies used are like a house of cards -- question one detail and the whole deck falls.

    OF COURSE let someone know. And, I agree with another poster, your classmates can consider themselves extremely lucky that I wasn't in the class with them, because I would have stood up and embarrassed them in front of God and everyone.
  8. by   Melina
    Quote from IMustBeCrazy
    And, I agree with another poster, your classmates can consider themselves extremely lucky that I wasn't in the class with them, because I would have stood up and embarrassed them in front of God and everyone.
    :roll

    I can understand what a struggle this must have been for the OP. Many of us grew up thinking that "snitching" is a bad thing, but this is not grade school, this is one of the most important things any of us will ever do. As nurses, we must be held to a higher standard.

    People do what works for them. When someone cheats and gets away with it, he or she will be more likely to did it again in the future.
  9. by   mom23RN
    Quote from reebok
    I know someone out there still disagrees with me. So here goes my last attempt to try to get you all to understand. Let's think of a possible real life situation.

    For ex: Sally, an only child, has just experience the 1rst death in her family. Sally lost her only parent who was her father. She remembers her father being extremely proud of her for going back to College. She's going through the grieving process as well as experiencing financial problems. Sally has 3 kids and the kids' father doesn't help to support them. Two of three kids she have are experiencing trouble at school academically. The reason why she didn't study was b/c she was busy helping them with their homework. Although Sally is currently working full-time to meet ends-meet, she has recently received threat of an eviction and 3 red letters saying some utility will get cut off or car repossessed. She cheated but after she got the answers she went back over the test to understand the material. She cant justify the cheating but right now shes at a time in her life when she could loose everything. She could loose her car, house, fuure, kids and mind.

    Let's say the cheaters were expelled b/c you reported that incident. She was expelled and lost her Faith. Was it worth that woman's children quality of life. Was it worth her living the rest of her life struggling to take care of herself.
    Prioritize: Is reporting the cheaters for a pre-req test that important?
    Wow.... so what you're saying is "as long as there's a good reason...." You'll always be able to justify lying or cheating to yourself. And it just tends to snowball.

    So to answer your question... yes it is important to report ALL cheaters. I don't care what the "excuse" is or not. It's wrong and that's part of the problem with today's socitey. We can always try to blame things on others when, in reality, it's our own actions that have caused the problem in the first place.
  10. by   Jolie
    Quote from reebok
    So it's okay to bend rules only if its planned in advance. I think according to Law Premeditated murder would give a more harsh charge than someone who reacted out of passion.

    Ignorantium Argumentum: There is no evidence that any of the cheaters had any extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.

    There is no evidence that there wasn't any cheaters with extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.
    So facilitating a visit between a critically ill new mother and her infant is akin to pre-meditated murder?

    I simply can't continue a rational argument in the face of such disordered thinking.

    I'm done.
  11. by   justavolunteer
    I can understand why someone may not want to be a 'whistleblower' these days. The type of person who could cheat with no pangs of conscience may also become violent with no qualms. HOWEVER, this still doesn't excuse cheating. I have been a patient myself and I certainly wouldn't want someone caring for me who can easily cut corners. Furthermore, if someone thinks a person who cheats in school is suddenly going to become Mr. or Ms. Perfect Nurse in the real world, please contact me. I have some oceanfront property in Kansas I can sell you for a really good price!
  12. by   reebok
    Quote from Jolie
    So facilitating a visit between a critically ill new mother and her infant is akin to pre-meditated murder?

    I simply can't continue a rational argument in the face of such disordered thinking.

    I'm done.

    The point being made was that there is no evidence that there wasn't any evidence of extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.
    EX:
    Sally didn't plan to cheat but since the opportunity presented itself and the professor could careless WHY NOT? Besides everyone else is doing it. A voice in her head is saying," God I know this is wrong, but I promise I will go back and study this material so I can understand it later" Right now she is worried about more important issues at hand.
  13. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from reebok
    Sally didn't plan to cheat but since the opportunity presented itself and the professor could careless WHY NOT? Besides everyone else is doing it.
    And as Grandma used to say "if everyone else jumped off of the bridge, would you?"

    There is no excuse for cheating, whether it's planned or not. So because someone didn't plan on cheating, then that makes it ok (whether the professor cares or not)?

    Let's not forget that some schools have an honor code. (whether the professor "cares" or not) If someone can't live up to an honor code, then how can anyone expect them to abide by the laws of the SB, and policy and procedure of the facility they work for.

    If you didn't receive your pain medication, and you found out your nurse documented that they gave it to you, i highly doubt that knowing about the circumstances in the nurse's personal life will amount to a hill of beans when you're laying there in pain.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Nov 13, '06 : Reason: wasn't done yet

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