The education requirement for nursing is changing - Page 9
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Aug 28, '12 by lub dubQuote from JZ_RNUh, JZ, what do you mean by "busy work classes and citations and leadership nonsense"? Do you have a BSN degree? If not, how do you know that these are part of the BSN curriculum??Busywork classes and citations and leadership nonsense do not make a better nurse.
I have a doctorate in nursing, and I can honestly say that I have never encountered any "busy work classes and citations and leadership nonsense" along the way.just keep swimming likes this. -
Aug 28, '12 by Asystole RNQuote from DoGoodThenGoMany did, many more did not. In fact sitting two feet to my left is a Diploma nurse who I think roommated with Nightingale. When she is gone she will not be replaced.Know many know this already but just want to point out that a very good number of diploma grads did not end their nursing days that way. Tons went on to get their BSN, MSN, PhD and so forth, you had only to look at who ran and staffed schools of nursing (college/university based and diploma programs), as well as DONs/nursing administration.
Once one limits the schools, time will take care of itself. -
- Aug 28, '12 by Asystole RNQuote from joanna73BSNs have been around a lot longer than the 70's.Nurses have been receiving BSN's since the 1970's. In Canada, around 1980, our professional nursing organizations began the discussion regarding the trend toward the Bachelor's Degree as the minimum entry to practise. By 2009, the BSN became the standard for all new graduates across Canada. Similarly, Australia and the UK also now hold the BSN as the standard for nurses. How would/ should this affect America, some may wonder? Nursing is global...and the US is just beginning to catch up. Does this mean that BSN educated nurses are somehow more enlightened? No. However, the standards have changed.
BSNs were around at least in the 1920's at Yale, there were other schools such as Columbia that were established in the 1890's that offered a nursing program that gave you a bachelor's degree along with a diploma in nursing (kind of like a dual degree or interdisciplinary degree). - Aug 28, '12 by Asystole RNQuote from kcmylornMandating a standard level of education at the bachelor standard for entry into the profession has nothing to do with anything but the professionalization of nursing. Every other reason that is stated such as patient outcomes is simply excuses to help reinforce professionalization.I don't think the BSN manadate has anything to do with a genuine interest in advancing the nursing profession. I think it has to do with giving job security to those in academia, the nursing executives will feel they have less hard heads to crack and the BSN's will "see things the corporate way" and in agreeing with a thought that Brandon posted- all the "nursing tasks " cand be given to UAP- cost farr less money than LPN's and ADN's. I don't think any one of the PTB care a whoot about high quality patient care and doing the right thing, they are willing to settle for competent care level because it is cheaper and means more money for them.
If they cared about high quality patient care- this runawway trainwreck of a healthcare system we have would have reached a screetching halt a long time ago.
Being squeeszed out of money for tuition with the threat and reality of "no BSN= no job" I believe equals extortion. And like earlier pointed out- how many 50 yr old's are willing to put them self into further debt to accomodate these friviolious nursing ecxecutives and nursing academia whose personal financial situations in their own home is - money is no object. This is blatant- look at the clothes they wear to work, their purses, their cars- they are not shopping Wal-Mart people!!! I don't care what size they wear- it doesn't come from Wal-Mart.
Whether one wants to professionalize nursing or not is up to debate.
There is no nursing education conspiracy, man did walk on the moon, Kennedy was shot by Oswald, and vaccines do not control our mind.BlueDevil,DNP and lindarn like this. -
Aug 28, '12 by woohQuote from kcmylornAnd if it takes four years (worth of academic credits) to get the degree, fewer will be pursuing nursing, jobs would open up.You can grandfather in all the diplomas and ADN's and LPN's you want- those are just words. Try getting a job!! - Aug 28, '12 by samadams8Quote from DoGoodThenGoWow. Thanks for responding. To the part about academically inclined--OK, maybe it is me, but um, it's really not all that hard or challenging, especially if you aren't aiming for a 4.0 for grad school.Some people aren't academically inclined towards four year college work, which often is one of the reasons they chose a lesser degree in the first place. Suppose after being licensed one could shop around for an online RN-BSN program that wasn't too difficult but there are pitfalls there as well. Some simply cannot function without the structure of physically attending classes.
It all comes down to what will happen after the ten years or so (assuming extensions are built into the scheme) pass and the ADN RN still does not have her or his BSN, what then? Are you going to take their license away? Suspend it until proof of BSN is submitted. Can tell you know that is going to make some lawyers very happy.
2nd: No, don't take away anyone's license. You set in certain stipulations for delay--say for example, you were working full time, taking courses, and you had children and had to take in a parent with Alzheimer's with that time period? Maybe you had to fight breast cancer twice. So these things have to be approached in a stepped process and case-by-case basis. If you meet certain exceptions, however, you have to be able to demonstrate that they are true--they must be able to be verified. People can't just say, "Ah my grandmom got ill and ......." I mean for various professional certifications in medicine, NP, etc, you have to maintain so many hours of practice, jump through certain hoops. It's the way it goes. - Guide
Aug 28, '12 by joanna73Quote from Asystole RNYes I realize that BSN's have been in existence long before the 1970's. For the sake of this discussion, I mentioned the 1970's simply as a reference point. Many people seem to think that BSN's are a recent phenomenon.BSNs have been around a lot longer than the 70's. BSNs were around at least in the 1920's at Yale, there were other schools such as Columbia that were established in the 1890's that offered a nursing program that gave you a bachelor's degree along with a diploma in nursing (kind of like a dual degree or interdisciplinary degree).Fiona59 likes this. - Aug 28, '12 by samadams8Quote from Asystole RNMandating a standard level of education at the bachelor standard for entry into the profession has nothing to do with anything but the professionalization of nursing. Every other reason that is stated such as patient outcomes is simply excuses to help reinforce professionalization.
Whether one wants to professionalize nursing or not is up to debate.
There is no nursing education conspiracy, man did walk on the moon, Kennedy was shot by Oswald, and vaccines do not control our mind.
Smile. I agree and disagree at the same time. Politics and money are indeed huge issues here. I am not saying I am against making baseline nursing education BSN. I think ultimately it will promote our profession.
What I am against is the way in which it is being approached, particularly in this economic climate, and particularly with regard to giving new grad BSNs without strong clinical RN experience preference over those that have strong clinical experience--even if those with said strong experience have been out of nursing for a time.
Why? There is a curb of forgetting, but if you have strong, lengthy experience, unless you have some form of dementia or a drug problem, no. It does NOT all fall out of your brain. You have clinical judgment and critical thinking skills that you have NOT lost. Being a bit rusty /0/= forgotten strong knowledge, skills, judgment and critical thinking--that new graduates, regardless of the BSN, have not as yet obtained--and will require YEARS to obtain--even if they don't like to face that reality.
However, when you can kill two birds with one stone--that is, meet the current political agenda, which looks good on paper, with keeping salaries low (Hey you're paying non-experienced, novice RNs a lot less than experienced ones.), well, this can look like a win-win all the way around. But the thinking is shortsighted.
Hospitals are going to be bitten in the rumps big time over this approach. Live and learn--yet again. - Aug 28, '12 by lub dubQuote from DoGoodThenGoWhat if a person who was not "academically inclined towards four year college work" wanted to be a physician? Should we simply lower the academic threshold for that profession?Some people aren't academically inclined towards four year college work, which often is one of the reasons they chose a lesser degree in the first place.
