The education requirement for nursing is changing - Page 4

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  1. Aug 27, '12 by
    Quote from RCBR
    The data out there says otherwise. Look up research by Aiken et al demonstrating that hospitals with higher ratio of BSN educated nurses have lower patient mortality rates. Sorry to break your bubble, but more education does make a better nurse.
    Aiken, Clarke, Cheung, Sloane & Sliber, 2003; Estabrooks, Midodzi, Cummings, Ricker & Giovanetti, 2005; Tourangeau, et al., 2006

    Did those studies convincingly demonstrate a causal link?

    According to NSNA:
    No one to date is able to explain why having at least a baccalaureate degree in nursing was associated with a lower mortality rate....
    RNam likes this.
  2. Aug 27, '12 by
    Correlation does not equal causation. Every study Ive seen seems either statistically insignificant or incidental and can be explained by the fact that rich, well connected hospitals tend to hire only BSNs for prestige reasons. This clearly skews the already razor thin data.
    RNam, rmtocc, and JZ_RN like this.
  3. Aug 27, '12 by
    Quote from kabfighter
    I've been wondering recently that since many hospitals are using master's-educated nurses to fill management positions, why not completely change the BSN and make it more practice-based and leave the management courses to the master's degrees. I have an associate's degree, but I think that we need to become BSN-only in order to be taken more seriously as a profession. We arguably have the most responsibility over our patients' well-being throughout their hospitalizations, but are educated far less than any of the other allied health members (with the exception of respiratory therapy). Instead of slinging ASN vs. BSN crap, we should make the BSN more relevant to the work that the majority of nurses do and implement it as the entry-level education. Newly-graduated nurses are half-baked (at best) with clinical skills regardless of educational pathway, and another year of clinical in more diverse settings would be ideal. This would increase the quality of new graduates, slow the influx of new nurses into the workforce, make it more difficult for fly-by-night schools to open and operate, and help legitimize nursing as a profession. I've looked through my school's ASN-BSN curriculum, and I can honestly say that as a med-surg nurse, only two of the ten or so additional nursing classes would benefit me at all. Leave the nursing theory and leadership classes to the graduate programs, and make the BSN better.

    Half-baked at best? Please. Some of the "seasoned" nurses I worked with when I was brand new didn't understand why they gave K+ with lasix. Speak for yourself, maybe.
    lindarn and netglow like this.
  4. Aug 27, '12 by
    Quote from RCBR
    The data out there says otherwise. Look up research by Aiken et al demonstrating that hospitals with higher ratio of BSN educated nurses have lower patient mortality rates. Sorry to break your bubble, but more education does make a better nurse.

    Not by any of the studies I've ever seen. And the data that negate my original comment is anecdotal at best. A small sampling doesn't speak for every patient, every nurse, every setting ever. So magnet hospitals with tons of money of, tons of advanced technology and procedures that hire mainly BSN nurses have lower mortality rates? Yeah probably because they have access to more treatments, meds, diagnostic tests, etc. I doubt it has anything to do with that diversity or teamwork class those allmighty BSN nurses took.
    BrandonLPN likes this.
  5. Aug 27, '12 by
    My opinion: Education is your foundation, and it should be ongoing. This is no substitute for valuable years of experience, but, in reality, we limit our scope of practice and our voice in the healthcare system if we are unwilling to commit to furthering our education. However, I owe a number of talented, intelligent ADNs, LPNs, and diploma nurses credit for providing me with a vast amount of nursing knowledge.
    fashionistaRN, gypsyd8, Mom To 4, and 6 others like this.
  6. Aug 27, '12 by
    And I'm not knocking BSN nurses, I respect more education, it's always a good thing, but it won't make you a better nurse to complete more classes on how to write and leadership and other stuff that's not clinical. I know all the clinical information any BSN nurse with similar experience would know. I am doing my BSn simply as a career advancement technique. I've honestly learned nothing I've used clinically though.
    Tracy1275, netglow, and Fiona59 like this.
  7. Aug 27, '12 by
    But RCBR your argument supports mine.

    You just graduated so I guess you just wouldn't know if you are gonna be better equipped than somebody else yet. I think that you got some debt, am I right?? (see the comparing a nurses' salary thread) This is really what I think fuels the "I'm betta" or "I deserve" arguments.

    You lost some money, college means losing money. How much you lost was in your control.
  8. Aug 27, '12 by
    Quote from JZ_RN
    Half-baked at best? Please. Some of the "seasoned" nurses I worked with when I was brand new didn't understand why they gave K+ with lasix. Speak for yourself, maybe.
    New graduate nurses are not even close to being prepared to work without supervision for at least several months. The foundation is certainly laid, but I think a more clinical-based BSN would more adequately prepare nurses for the 'real world'. If I could change any one part of my nursing school experience, I would have liked more clinical hours with less hand-holding. Most students should have enough sense to know when to stop and ask questions, and have enough confidence to do what they know without an instructor breathing down their neck. I would have loved to had another year of advanced pharmacology and pathophysiology and less restrictive clinicals. I think that would be a better use of the BSN than the current offerings.

    The K+ with Lasix is a pretty silly thing to not know, I'll grant you that.

    I was half-baked...that's why I had a preceptor for two months. I am young, but I am fairly accomplished; being a new nurse has been the most humbling time of my life. Hubris has no place in nursing. In school, you learn how to be a nursing student. Once you start working, you learn how to be a nurse.
  9. Aug 28, '12 by
    I really do not see a need to change a thing....the various stages of education and levels of nursing seem to fit the individual and his/her needs just fine....as an LPN, I am thrilled to have the opportunity to be a nurse, and the time frame I was able to attain those initials was a real bonus....I am now continuing on in the LPN to BSN program and am only doing so because of my own personal career goal of becoming a NP in Psychiatry...that is my choice, and others should have choices too....by stating that all nurses need to have the BSN following there name is counter productive in my opinion....by doing so you will eliminate a great deal of fantastic nurses, nurses that have LPN and RN attached to them....In my own little Utopia, I would love to see the heirarchy and competition over "who's the better nurse", simply because of the stupid initials that follow the name be eliminated....we are all simply nurses, isn't that good enough?....
  10. Aug 28, '12 by
    I know it sounds silly & maybe even a little crazy but education can always be a good thing for both the young and old, or in this case an experienced nurse. I am on my way to becoming a nurse & for that I am most grateful. I am also grateful that I will have my masters (specialty is yet to be decided because I am *still* debating between two). It kind of saddens me when people are not really wanting to continue their education (and believe me I have heard my fair share of excuses or life altering burdens). However, I have been interning/volunteering (unpaid) for almost a year now and every morning at 7 am I get to see what my days will be like when I work alongside CNAs, RNs, LVNs, physicians, social workers, etc..and it excites me! I learn something new from all of them, but I rarely see them learning from each other. I have a huge amount of respect for each individual that works on the orthopedic surgical floor (where I am currently helping out), for different reasons. Even if you have been working for 2 years 10, 15, 30+ years, the technology and procedures will continue to change. A little education never hurt anyone, and we all should be excited to learn about new methods, new ways to use machines, new ways to improve our communications skills between patents, their families, and other staff members, and new ways to make sure patients are recovering in a clean and fast pace environment that gets them back to living as a healthier human being. Hopefully people could be more positive about it, instead of dreading it. Maybe the current nurses and future soon to be nurses could think of it as a good thing because as human beings and changing generations we are constantly striving to make sure that the *patient* is getting the most up-to-date and correct type of healthcare that is available.