Dr. gives deadline to smoking pts - page 5

Just heard a news item ........... Dr. Ross in Manitoba has issued a deadline to all pts who smoke......by March 1st.....today...... seek treatment to stop the addiction of smoking or lose him as a... Read More

  1. by   JMP
    Mario

    I guess you did not read my posting with the care I thought you would. I did respond. You think people will be compelled to do the opposite to which I subscribe. You think perhaps I think you just walked out a "cotton field". If you carry that "logic" one step further you would then have me believe that people smoke....well because I said it was bad, unhealthy etc. If you really believe that.........your head is still stuck in teenage-land. A land where everything an adult says ....you are driven to do opposite. You feel I have strong opinions that are best left to myself? Being strong on smoking may not win me friends but I still believe that I am right.
  2. by   JMP
    Mario

    I guess you did not read my posting with the care I thought you would. I did respond. You think people will be compelled to do the opposite to which I subscribe. You think perhaps I think you just walked out a "cotton field". If you carry that "logic" one step further you would then have me believe that people smoke....well because I said it was bad, unhealthy etc. If you really believe that.........your head is still stuck in teenage-land. A land where everything an adult says ....you are driven to do opposite. You feel I have strong opinions that are best left to myself? Being strong on smoking may not win me friends but I still believe that I am right.
  3. by   fiestynurse
    Unless those who presume to play God are prevented from imposing their dictates on the population in this manner, be prepared to live your life the way you are told to by clinical authorities. Smokers will not be the last group singled out for 'lifestyle correction' if this inversion of medicine is permitted.

    When a doctor becomes judge and censor of the behaviour of another human being, his profession is not a physician, but an executioner.

    Winnipeg Dr. Frederick Ross has been quoted as saying,
    "We're trying to make a smoke-free province . . . I'm doing my part,"
    Winnipeg Free Press, 21 December 2001

    This modern day self -directed medical mandate to kill by refusing treatment to smokers is not unique to Canada. Australia has imposed this death sentence for 'disobedience' before.

    For the time being, until the ethics and suitability for the profession of those who place more importance on an agenda than patient care is clarified, it's just as well that patients are served notice of a Dr.'s priority. Placing your treatment in the hands of someone who thinks this way would definitely not be a wise move.

    The need to react strongly in opposition to this proposed new social hierarchy, and redefinition of medical parametres, can't be overstated.
  4. by   disher
    Yeesh, hot topic... seems to be derailing in all different directions..Fiestynurse proposing that Dr. Ross is an executioner for asking his patients to see another doctor... is uhm creative thinking to say the least... How will the patient be harmed if asked to see another doctor? I understand about the dangers of precedent setting, but does that means we keep the status quo?
  5. by   pebbles
    nobody is refusing to treat smokers.
    people who smoke have an *addiction*.
    addiction is an illness.
    this dr is refusing to treat people who do not try to alleviate their own illness.
    he is just refusing the ones who say "yah, i smoke, what are you gonna do about it?", and keep puffing away with disregard for their own health and the health of those around them. costing the system and this doctor time, money, etc. if they want to disregard their own health, why should they be supported in that effort by millions of dollars in high-tech health resources? you want to talk about execution, it looks like suicide to me. and it is unethical for a dr to help his patients commit suicide, right?
    just to change the perspective expressed in feistynurse's post ....
  6. by   wildhoney
    Originally posted by pebbles

    it looks like suicide to me. And it is unethical for a dr to help his patients commit suicide, right?


    So what you're saying is--

    People who smoke are trying to commit suicide? I can think of
    faster ways to do that. No, I completely and vehemently disagree here. They're in DENIAL and deep down they're afraid. I could stand to lose some weight, I would probably be a lot healthier if I was thinner. Does this mean I'm trying to give myself a MI? Does this mean I'm trying to commit suicide? Heck no!

    I also want to apologize to comparing smoking to drunk driving. I didn't mean it like it sounded, and I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have. For that I am sorry. That's one of the pitfalls of a message board, I can't see ya all and talk with my hands.
  7. by   fiestynurse
    There has been a disturbing trend in healthcare, where smokers are being refused treatments and procedures, based on the belief that smokers are poor healers and prone to complications. There was a recent lawsuit involving a patient who was refused triple by-pass surgery because he was a smoker. The guy claimed that he was discriminated against.

    http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/engli...000/343078.stm

    http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapc...ealth.smoking/
    Last edit by fiestynurse on Mar 3, '02
  8. by   wildhoney
    That was an interesting article Fiestynurse. Thank you for sharing it.
  9. by   rncountry
    Mario,
    It offends you that I called you Honey? Sorry!!!!! It simply is actually the way I talk when I am trying to lighten the mood. I have obviously touched quite a nerve with you, I was trying to explain myself and be nice, not be inappropriate or nasty.
    I thought I was trying to nicely say what I will now say bluntly. You are not a nurse. You likely have not experienced watching someone not be able to breathe even on a vent, because their lungs will not oxygenate. Because they continued to smoke and smoke heavily, even after they had been on the vent and weaned not once but twice. Even after having a pneumothorax from coughing so hard. You have not likely experienced the frequent flyers who refuse time and time again to take any kind of responsiblity for their own healthcare and while they moan and groan expect you to wave a magic wand and make them all better. And be their private duty nurse while you are at it.
    My comment to you was because of your "live and let live" philosophy. It is easy to have that when you have not watched what I have described or watched the mother of a 24 year old kid who died from a brain hemmorrage after being hit by a drunk driver lay in bed with him and sob her heart out. And that was the point I was trying to make.
    The lady who died on the vent died while I was holding her. She was so scared, no family in yet though called. Normally you would give a patient like this morphine but she had declined hoping to be with it when her family got there, but they just didn't make it in time. Mario, when you hold someone and feel them breathe their last, and you cry when it happens, knowing that death did not have to be that horrid, then you come back to me and tell me live and let live.
  10. by   rncountry
    And mario, my teenage son is a great guy. You don't know it but being compared to him is not a bad thing. He is smart as a whip, funny, cultured and very well read. He can think most things though better than many adults I know. He has managed to juggle band, football, musicals and dramas, choir for church, youth group, working, friends and a girlfriend and still maintain a 3. 5 grade point average. He listens to the words in music and that is what makes it important to him. He plays trumpet in band as well as baritone. He plays electric and acostic guitar, self taught. It was your many references to music that made me think of the comparison first. So while it upset you to be compared to a young man, I am sorry. He is a wonderful, wonderful young man to be compared to.
  11. by   mario_ragucci
    You are all right RN Country nurse :-) Maybe you don't know, but I am going on 38. In response to your doubts about my experience, Mario has experienced EXACTLY what you describe. It was the WORST event (period) in my life, and I always feared it. The memories are vivid, till this day. It's been a few years, but life only gets better after that period in my life. And I say live and let live!!!!! Maybe you haven't seen the worst thing that can happen in your life, and your still afraid. Thats okay. Don't (even attempt to) say I haven't seen the worst. Don't. Maybe I am immune now, which is why I have a positive and free outlook.

    Thank you for comparing me to your son, although I am >2x his age. He must be quite a guy, someone you love very much :-)

    Perhaps, one day, if you die of an illness, your son will be with you all the way, because he loves you very much. Some sons stay with and care for their parents when they are ill, and dying, and they see, feel, and remember the kinds of things you don't think I have ever seen. RN's are not the only people who see life/love become death. Careful wichaw assumptions now :-)

    Life gets better, everyday :-) So let folks live. Let folks enjoy their life. Thank you. :-)
  12. by   rncountry
    Mario, I used to work Neuro-trauma ICU. I have seen many horrible things. The guy who was scalped after having the crap beat out of him. The woman who was attacked, raped and left for dead. The drug dealer who was shot execution style, and lived. The father of 3 who tried to kill himself and managed to blow off the bottom part of his face instead. The newlywed who hit a patch of ice, rolled his truck, went out the side window(no seatbelt)and had the truck roll over on his head. While cleaning him up I actually ended up with his brains in the washcloth because they were leaking from his ears. Some of these people I will never forget. It isn't fear that bothers me. It is the intense sadness and anger that the family left behind has to deal with. Once upon a time I thought a semi was going to hit me head on, I had an intense moment of great fear and then the most peaceful sensation that I couldn't begin to describe. I have never feared dying since. To me the worst thing in the world would be for one of my kids to die. I left ICU when I was consistantly having nightmare's about my kids being on vents. 95% of my patients were vented. But it is not fear of maybe the worst thing, it is an very strong belief that people should be responsible for the choices they make in life, to not say "I can't, it's too hard" because can't never did nothing. And especially a belief that one should not expect someone else to do what you should and could do for yourself. Helping someone is one thing, carrying them is something else.
    Went to work today to find someone there that has been with us two times before. The second time he left AMA because the doc had cut off his narcotics. He is there with a flap to heal a massive decub. Again. He is paraplegic because he rolled his car while drunk driving and running from the cops. He refuses to be compliant with therapy, is an active herion addict, you would not believe the pain med he is on now(different doc this time around) and guess who is paying for all this? Medicare. He is after all disabled from his accident and therefore qualifies. He is so noncompliant that he literally cannot find a doc in Kalamazoo to take care of him. So now he is making the rounds of the docs in Battle Creek. Neither hospital in Kalamazoo is willing to admit him again. It is patients like this that I say there is simply a point where enough is enough. Dr. Ross felt that way after he took care of a lady with lung CA who then went back to smoking. I just can understand the sentiment. How I wished I did not need to take care of this guy today. I do wound care now, and this is the third time around for the same area because he simply will not be compliant with his particular needs. To me it is a waste of my time, a waste of the healthcare system and taxpayer money. This patient has gone the gambit of psych care too. I may sound harsh, but it is frustrating at the max to have to spend my time with a patient who doesn't give a rip whether they actually get better, when I have one down the hall that needs me too but wants to get better and go home.
    Mario your ok too.
  13. by   mario_ragucci
    My brother feels like you do. These are YOUR frustrations, and you are absolutely entitled to them. Should they effect the care you a person is also up to you. People go round and round with this. Sometimes, its even a religious belief that can get in the way of proper treatment, among others.
    Mario cares for everybody, not even a smidge of judgement would pass my hippocampus when it comes to anyone needing my care. Well, there would be exceptions (to everything) but you know what I mean. Mario also says "live and let die." This topic is some can of worms, huh. JMP had to get the can opener going :-)

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