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A doctor helps children change their gender



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No. 30
from leslie :-D
Old Apr 25, 2008, 05:16 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
Originally Posted by earle58 View Post

you just cannot appreciate the depth of their anguish, unless you choose to become informed.
please, just take some time and read about these kids.
and then, you can make an educated decision.

leslie
ok, so this is exactly what i have been doing:
reading article after article about transgendered kids and their needs.

i will concede that any permanent surgery, is best saved for late adolescence.
but i remain just as convinced that giving meds to delay puberty, is ethical and necessary...
knowing that it is fully reversible.

most of these kids know as early as 2-4yo, that they are in the wrong body.
and this sense of self only deepens as they get older, thus the high suicide rates amongst teens.
the despair is overwhelming if parents make them feel abnormal.

my bottom line is this:
as long as the child can safely be raised in an environment where their feelings are respected and supported, then that is half the battle.
ea and every article i read, showed exactly this:
that when 'allowed' to be a girl/boy, they were so much happier and well adjusted.
love and support is everything.
so as long as parents take the time and energy needed to invest in the well being of their child, the child can make his/her own decisions later in life.
it's imperative to remember, that w/o this support, i.e., "no, you cannot wear your sister's dress", or "whether you like it or not, you are a boy", the child is much more likely to fail and even succumb to other desperate measures.

so listen to your kids, and love them for who they are.
all the rest should fall into place.

leslie
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No. 31
Old Apr 25, 2008, 05:42 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
We watched a video on this for a psych class. There was one boy who absolutely identified as being a girl, who truly gave me the impression of in the wrong body.

There was another boy who seemed always to have always been timid and fearful from toddlerhood (family videos) and who seemed to feel safer as a girl exempted from male competition and physicality. His mother seemed to have played to his fears rather than trying to build his confidence, and to have indulged him in dressing as a girl very early as a comfort measure and in secrecy from her husband, a conspiracy between the two of them, with all the strain of "We won't tell your father." Very sad, very sick, and yet the mother was portrayed as a sensitive, noble advocate for her child.

There was also an adult male-female transsexual who'd gone as far as castration and breast augmentation, who seemed to be completely narcissistic, fascinated with his own body as an erotic object. He lived in partnership with another male-female transexual - so why go to all the surgery and trouble to be a woman (with a penis) just to end up like that?

There seem to be many motivations for transsexualism beyond the sense of being in the wrong-sexed body. IMO the physicians ought to be more careful about who they give the go-ahead to.
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No. 32
from bassandtea
Old Apr 25, 2008, 05:56 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
Originally Posted by kxvc View Post
.... Children are children, not little adults. They should not be allowed to make decisions of this magnitude on their own, nor should their parents make them for them.

... There is no way these children are giving informed consent because their minds do not see beyond the here and now. I believe this to be completely unethical. They have no right.
I mentioned earlier that I see this as also offering benefit to children born with ambiguous gender. Currently the parents of such children choose what gender their children will be often leading to surgery as a baby or child. In such cases children are too young to give any kind of consent. In the case I know of personally the parents chose the gender of their child, and even as an adult this individual finds it difficult to live with the choices of the parents and undergoes treatment with a number of hormones to live as the gender their parents chose.

While this is different from being transgendered some of the same principles apply. Furthermore the main focus of what this Doctor is doing is to delay puberty - in a reversible manner - to either a time when the individual and parents feel a decision can be made about gender re-assignment or for gender re-assignment to not happen.
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No. 33
Old Apr 25, 2008, 05:57 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
Originally Posted by birdgardner View Post
We watched a video on this for a psych class. There was one boy who absolutely identified as being a girl, who truly gave me the impression of in the wrong body.

There was another boy who seemed always to have always been timid and fearful from toddlerhood (family videos) and who seemed to feel safer as a girl exempted from male competition and physicality. His mother seemed to have played to his fears rather than trying to build his confidence, and to have indulged him in dressing as a girl very early as a comfort measure and in secrecy from her husband, a conspiracy between the two of them, with all the strain of "We won't tell your father." Very sad, very sick, and yet the mother was portrayed as a sensitive, noble advocate for her child.

There was also an adult male-female transsexual who'd gone as far as castration and breast augmentation, who seemed to be completely narcissistic, fascinated with his own body as an erotic object. He lived in partnership with another male-female transexual - so why go to all the surgery and trouble to be a woman (with a penis) just to end up like that?

There seem to be many motivations for transsexualism beyond the sense of being in the wrong-sexed body. IMO the physicians ought to be more careful about who they give the go-ahead to.
I know some transgendered people. One is a woman who has Klinefelter's syndrome - genetically XXY. Sterile, never fully masculinized, and is now very happy as a woman. Another was a male born with undescended testicles and a penis that never fused who was wrongly assigned a femal identity in childhood without any genetic testing having been done. He had reassignment surgery done, wow, three decades ago, and last seen was in a very happy heterosexual relationship.

I agree that not everyone is truly transgendered - the erotically-fixated male-to-female individual might have a disorder (a controversial diagnosis) called "autogynephilia," in which getting and having a vagina becomes a fetish all its own.

That said, if the only thing that made sense to me about my gender was that I was attracted to the "right" sex, that would not be a reason to remain that gender.

The help being proffered to these children is the opposite of rash. It allows them MORE time in which to make an irreversible decision.
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No. 34
Old Apr 25, 2008, 09:31 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
Wow, this thread took off. Thanks, OP!

Bottom line, the children are being offered more opportunity to make their decision before the irreversible changes brought on by puberty happen. Whatever you think of Gender Dysphoria, or Trans people in general, this doctor is helping teens make a responsible decision....rather than kill themselves (in many cases)...and WITHOUT making irreversible changes to their bodies. No one is suggesting that 10 year old boys get estrogen as their first treatment. No one is lobbying for breast implants or SRS for said kid. Just a little more time to think about it.... Win-Win according to me.

You might wonder why I am so opinionated about this subject. My best friend is a M-to-F transexual. She is lucky to be alive, because of people that do not understand her disorder and make irresponsible, crass remarks...or feel that she can somehow be 'fixed' by meds...or that she can just 'get over it'. I wish she had been offered this opportunity 30 years ago.


Thanks

SS
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No. 35
Old Apr 25, 2008, 09:51 PM
Updated Apr 25, 2008 at 10:06 PM by Spidey's mom

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
Originally Posted by jlsRN View Post
Thank you, the voice of reason.

I spent my entire childhood wanting to be a boy. I even had an elborate fantasy that I actually believed that I was really a Martian boy named Jupiter who had come to Earth in this body (a female) in order to study the human race. I believed this for a year, I had an invisible penis. Since I was adopted, it all fit together nicely.

Once I hit puberty I started coming to terms with my gender and have had a normal (average, ordinary, not unusual) sexual life as a heterosexual woman, borne several children, enjoyed breastfeeding, etc.

When I was a girl, the thought of getting breasts appalled me! They sounded like totally inconvenient appendeges.

I agree that childhood is the wrong time to do this.

I too had an elaborate fantasy that I was from Venus and was dropped down onto Earth because my REAL family needed to fight a war in outer space. They sent a man named "Marshy" from Mars to check up on me and keep my informed regarding their fight.

The reason for the fantasy?? My own family was so dysfunctional. My parents fought all the time - physically and verbally. I just wanted out.

I think childhood is the time for questions about absolutely everything. Making permanent decisions at that time is premature.

I too was a tomboy. Maybe the problem isn't with the kids - it is with the definitions.

Let girls be tomboys without teasing them. Let boys play piano and dance without teasing them.

Then maybe they wouldn't have sex changes. They would be comfortable with who they were and with their bodies.

Maybe we are coming at this from the wrong end . . . . instead of changing the body - change peoples' expectations.

Change my family - get my parents some counseling and show them how to raise children without being selfish.

Instead of surgically removing me.

That seems easier to me.


steph
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No. 36
Old Apr 25, 2008, 10:18 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
This is from the childrens hospital website. It is the page about his gender services:

http://www.childrenshospital.org/cli...geS2280P0.html

The Gender Management Service (GeMS) Clinic at Children's Hospital Boston is a new multidisciplinary clinic that treats the medical and psychosocial issues of infants, children, adolescents and young adults with disorders of sexual differentiation (DSDs). Many of our patients face medical issues that may make it difficult to determine their sex and may interfere with sexual and reproductive function. Therefore, we work closely with patients and their families to find the treatment that works best for everyone involved.
We are also the first major program in the United States that not only treats disorders of sexual differentiation, but also works with transgendered children and young adults.
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No. 37
Old Apr 25, 2008, 10:27 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
I know it is a childrens hospital (lol. I would hope I knew that since I am a patient there) but I do not see why they mention infants. How can infants be sexually confused. I just learned in psychology class that kids don't understand they are a boy/girl and will stay that until they are 5 or 6.
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No. 38
Old Apr 25, 2008, 10:48 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
Originally Posted by stevielynn View Post
I too was a tomboy. Maybe the problem isn't with the kids - it is with the definitions.

Let girls be tomboys without teasing them. Let boys play piano and dance without teasing them.

Then maybe they wouldn't have sex changes. They would be comfortable with who they were and with their bodies.

Maybe we are coming at this from the wrong end . . . . instead of changing the body - change peoples' expectations.

While I agree with your dream of a world in which gender is self-defined rather than societally imposed that is, unfortunately, a long way from being reality.
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No. 39
Old Apr 25, 2008, 10:56 PM

Default Re: A doctor helps children change their gender
They don't understand until they're 5 or 6? Mine had it solid in their third year and never said anything about maybe they would be something else some day.

You know, the more I think about it, puberty postponement could be a very good idea for children with gender confusion. Having the "wrong" sex develop on you would be horrible. It wouldn't help you think, oh, I am really am a boy now. And it also beats change hormones and operations at the age of twelve or so. More time to resolve the issue can only help.

You know, there might be a much broader market for puberty postponement ... just ask the parents of tweens
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