Doctor Asked For A "Kind" Nurse - page 8

Let me preface this thread by stating a few things: 1. I'm not posting this thread to bash certain religions, I'm posting to vent, gain understanding, and get a variety of views. 2. Whatever... Read More

  1. by   BadBird
    If you don't believe in accepting a blood transfusion and you are an adult then you are making a informed decision and will suffer the consequences, however, a child can not make that decision which is why I don't understand why a court order for protective custody was not given, I have worked in a few hospitals where the children were given blood against the parents wishes.

    Isn't is a shame that people must suffer and die in the name of religion? Why do people think that only their God is the real God and everyone else must die? Just some thoughts to ponder over.
  2. by   LasVegasRN
    Agree BadBird. The patient is 18, though and signed the consent themselves.

    The JW liason did state our facility routinely obtains court orders on pediatric patients that require blood/blood products to preserve life, which is good to hear.

    3rdShiftGuy - thanks, needed that!
  3. by   leeca
    l'm so sick and tired of people making judgements on things they know nothing about.

    First of all they do not sit back and allow their children to die, they are happy for docs to use alternative methods to help their children, like Ringers Lactate etc instead of blood. Docs prefer to use blood because its cheaper.

    They believe in what the bible says, which states clearly that they are not to eat blood or blood products, they are to pour it on the ground. This includes taking blood via IV.

    To get this in perspective just because you refuse blood it doesn't automatically mean you are going to die.

    My sister in law hemorraged badly after giving birth, she refused blood. The docs and nurses put her and her husband under considerable pressure to accept blood. They stood their ground.

    She was rushed to a Melbourne hospital, while being told that she will die unless she accepts blood constantly while in the ambulance. She still refused.

    They decided to give her large quantities of iron, which she accepted and she is alive today, this happened abour 3 years ago.

    So don't assume that they will die without blood.

    You have to realise that you may consider that you are saving their life by forcing blood, but you don't realise the emotional damage you are doing, even to the point of breaking their spirit.

    They are not brain washed into making this decision nor do they make this decision lightly, they are well informed before making their decision.

    Think of how you would feel if someone tried to make you go against something you totally believe in.
  4. by   leeca
    Originally posted by LasVegasRN
    Further, what's the point of bringing the patient to the hospital ANYWAY? If you are of a belief that doesn't believe in life saving measures - which is obvious here - why not just keep them at home? Sign up for Hospice?
    This is such a stupid statement. Just because they don't accept blood doesn't mean that they won't accept alternative treatment.
  5. by   leeca
    Originally posted by stevielynn
    I think there have been cases like this where the hospital can ask a judge to intervene.

    My understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses is that if they accept blood or blood products, they will not get to heaven. So that means a great deal if you truly believe that. I believe it is a misinterpretation of the biblical injunction against eating an animal without draining it of its blood (a cleanliness issue rather than a "get to heaven" issue).

    I agree . . . this is very difficult to understand. Hopefully someone can intervene legally.
    Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe that they will go to heaven.
  6. by   leeca
    Originally posted by sjoe
    Vegas writes: "Further, what's the point of bringing the patient to the hospital ANYWAY? If you are of a belief that doesn't believe in life saving measures - which is obvious here - why not just keep them at home? Sign up for Hospice?"

    Exactly. Except for the fact that if this person were to die at home, the parents could well be prosecuted for criminal neglect and/or child endangerment, as several parents have been in the past. This way, they got the hospital to abet and condone their behavior, involving itself in similar potential criminal charges.

    Many hospitals would have simply contacted the state child protection authorities and gotten a court order to medically intervene in such a case.

    Perhaps when yours is one day successfully prosecuted and/or sued for damages, it will alter its current policy. Until then, it is simply taking the "easy way out" by not standing up to parents such as these, at the expense of patients' lives.

    "Kind" in this case, means "the kind of nurse who is totally compliant to the doc's orders regardless of the law and/or professional ethics and is unable to think for him/herself."

    Whatdo you mean "standing up to parents such as these", l'm astounded at the comments made with absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about.
  7. by   Stargazer
    leeca, if you are a Jehovah's Witness, I can understand how you might feel hurt or insulted by some of what you've read, but rather than characterizing other poster's comments or questions as "stupid", why not take the opportunity to educate a few thousand nurses here on your practices and beliefs? There are some legitimate questions and sincere requests for information here.
  8. by   leeca
    Originally posted by LasVegasRN
    The patient is 18, thus able to make own decision.

    I still don't understand the purpose of seeking medical attention if they are not going to accept it.

    Nothing is going to save this patient except blood products. Period. I still ask what is the point of coming to the hospital, and shouldn't Hospice be offered as an alternative since death has been chosen?
    The same statement was said about a relative of mine "nothing is going to save this patient except blood products", which was refused. And guess what she's still alive and now fit and healthy.

    Guess the docs aren't god after all and can't predict what going to happen.
  9. by   hoolahan
    People, Vegas is sharing her feelings and experiences here. I have read zillions of her posts, and she is definitely NOT a "bigot", "unkind", uncaring, stupid, etc...

    Can we please express our opinions w/o the personal attacks?? Geez!!! I think Vegas should be commended for reaching out to many different resources, that I would have never thought of, she is not discrimintaing against the pt IRL, just is trying to understand a situation that is personally incomprehnsible if she were to place herself in that family's shoes.

    Didn't mean to put words in your mouth Vegas, and I know you can hold her own, but there is a lot of judgement being passed here about you, that as your cyber friend, I do not appreciate or agree with! :kiss
  10. by   NurseGirlKaren
    Let's try to resume this as a DISCUSSION. Labeling posters' comments as "stupid" and "with absolutely no understanding of what they're talking about" do not do anything to further this discourse.
  11. by   leeca
    Originally posted by 3rdShiftGuy
    Plus if they took blood and saved themselves they would be put out of the church, his own parents would disown him, shun him. A fate worse than death in some of their eyes. You may as well tell him to eat his dog, he isn't going to take the blood, they are that adamant.

    This statement is inaccurate.
  12. by   leeca
    Originally posted by P_RN
    Several of our orthopods have done many total joints on people of this faith without use of blood. Some would agree to cell-saver and autologous retransfusion, but some did not. The lowest hgb I recall was 5 something.

    On another note we lost a friend last year whose family member was of this faith but he was not. The family member refused any blood products.
    Are you sure this is true. If the family member was an adult who wasn't not of the faith, then the other family member who was can't make the decision about not accepting blood for them.
  13. by   cactus wren
    leeca
    Senior Member

    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: geelong
    Posts: 58
    Post #94

    l'm so sick and tired of people making judgements on things they know nothing about.

    First of all they do not sit back and allow their children to die, they are happy for docs to use alternative methods to help their children, like Ringers Lactate etc instead of blood. Docs prefer to use blood because its cheaper.


    Huh ?? Since when??? Not here anyways....

    And thanks to earlier posters.....you have educated me about Belifs held by JW.....While my church does not share these beliefs, I am enlightened as to why you do, and ....well...guess that`s why there are so many different churches, we need to find the one that speaks to each one of us personally....Peace

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