Do you guys notice this kind of stuff....??

  1. This is a continuation of a former question....I have a BS in Finance...

    Do you guys notice the following...??

    Discrimination towards males in Nursing School or on the job, a tendency to view the male nurse as handy forklift?? Also, age discrimination especially as it relates to older men in nursing, (40's) (in other words, we are only in it either because we had to pick something due to economy etc., or we erroneously assume we will get into mgmt quicker than our female counterparts..) just the opposite I sure..

    BIG QUESTION...I have a back that is fine as long as I don't use it much...!!! (pretty sure this is the kiss of death for nursing) I usually have to be careful with it....the thought of being off-center moving a heavy patient etc., makes my lower back flinch just sitting here..., doesn't take too much to make it tighten up, then it's downhill from there....re-injuring is a given if I have to keep doing whatever it was that injured it first...

    I am in great shape muscularly and cardio-wise, etc., but the back needs loving care...THIS is what scares me more than a male-hating bitter divorcee transferring her unresolved anger on me....I've worked in healthcare arenas, primarily female, and you learn not to take the male bashing too seriously...just don't get too comfortable and return the love...

    AND, whats your take on the VISA nursing importation issues...do you see this eating up demand over the next decades..this seems very disheartening...Admittedly, you need a heart to be an effective nurse, but also have to be pragmatic about your finances etc.,

    Is it really just a matter of remaining positive, nose to grindstone, the workplace is always driven by gender and political issues....or is there a female groupthink, be it corrected politically but still harbored, that will make life more difficult for the male in this profession....I hear they are either harassed or cuddled depending on certain obvious attributes...!!

    Thanks
    Bill
    Last edit by wje9516 on Dec 27, '04
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  2. 24 Comments

  3. by   suzanne4
    With the "Visa thing"------they have been importing nurses for years into the US and there have always been jobs. Even back in the day of the temporary work permit and they were taking about anyone, even if they didn't speak English. Now there are strict requirements just in language skills, and the US is currently no longer offering fast-track green cards to nurses from India, China, and the Philippines.

    If nursing is something that you want to do, then do it. Don't try to talk yourself into it. Once you get your degree, and perhaps a year or two of experience, you can go into other areas.

    But keep in mind, even in working a periatrics unit, you will get patients in that are playing football when they are 14 years old, and weigh over 200 pounds. You will also get the 7 year old that weighs over 100 pounds.

    Good luck in what ever you decide...............
  4. by   wje9516
    Quote from suzanne4
    With the "Visa thing"------they have been importing nurses for years into the US and there have always been jobs. Even back in the day of the temporary work permit and they were taking about anyone, even if they didn't speak English. Now there are strict requirements just in language skills, and the US is currently no longer offering fast-track green cards to nurses from India, China, and the Philippines.

    If nursing is something that you want to do, then do it. Don't try to talk yourself into it. Once you get your degree, and perhaps a year or two of experience, you can go into other areas.

    But keep in mind, even in working a periatrics unit, you will get patients in that are playing football when they are 14 years old, and weigh over 200 pounds. You will also get the 7 year old that weighs over 100 pounds.

    Good luck in what ever you decide...............

    thanks...that helps, a little more freedom with your feelings on the back deal... you won't hurt my feelings...is that going to be a career killer?>

    Thanks very much,
    Bill
  5. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Ever consider utilization review or nursing research or another office/administrative type of nursing position? If not, I suggest you do so.

    You need to pull your weight if you plan on doing floor nursing, mainly female yes, but we all pull our weight where I work---- And the weight of a lot of others, what with many patients weighing in excess of 250lb where I work. Even if you don't lift patients, you do have to move and lift equipment, you know.

    Anyhow, Good luck to you. I am not going to address the anti-female comments in your post, just wish you the best. I am not in the mood for an argument. Good day!
  6. by   VickyRN
    Besides pediatrics, would you consider working in NICU?

    A couple of interesting articles:

    http://nsweb.nursingspectrum.com/cff...ninnursing.cfm

    http://nsweb.nursingspectrum.com/cff.../Bariatric.cfm
  7. by   RNPATL
    Quote from wje9516
    this is a continuation of a former question....i have a bs in finance...

    do you guys notice the following...??

    discrimination towards males in nursing school or on the job, a tendency to view the male nurse as handy forklift?? also, age discrimination especially as it relates to older men in nursing, (40's) (in other words, we are only in it either because we had to pick something due to economy etc., or we erroneously assume we will get into mgmt quicker than our female counterparts..) just the opposite i sure..
    actually, being a male and having been a nurse now for almost 21 years, i would agree that men tend to be welcome because of their strength, but simply set the rules .... you have to manage your work as much as they do. as far as age discrimination .... perhaps that is something in your mind as you begin to transition your career. most of the nurses that i work with are just happy to have the help ... they don't care how old you are or whether you changed careers so you could feed your family. all "we" care about is the fact that you are on the shift and can carry your own weight!

    Quote from wje9516
    big question...i have a back that is fine as long as i don't use it much...!!! (pretty sure this is the kiss of death for nursing) i usually have to be careful with it....the thought of being off-center moving a heavy patient etc., makes my lower back flinch just sitting here..., doesn't take too much to make it tighten up, then it's downhill from there....re-injuring is a given if i have to keep doing whatever it was that injured it first...

    i am in great shape muscularly and cardio-wise, etc., but the back needs loving care...this is what scares me more than a male-hating bitter divorcee transferring her unresolved anger on me....i've worked in healthcare arenas, primarily female, and you learn not to take the male bashing too seriously...just don't get too comfortable and return the love...
    one of the reasons nursing is so appealing to men these days is because there are so many different areas of nursing. if you find that floor nursing is not your bag, or you physically can not manage it, there are plenty of other areas that might suit your ability.

    Quote from wje9516
    and, whats your take on the visa nursing importation issues...do you see this eating up demand over the next decades..this seems very disheartening...admittedly, you need a heart to be an effective nurse, but also have to be pragmatic about your finances etc.,
    actually, they have been importing nurses for years .... it is a great opportunity for some of those young people that want to make a life in the usa. i applaud their desire and efforts to get over here. i know i would be doing the same thing if i did not have the fortune of being born here. even with the imported nurses, there is still going to be a major (and already is) shortage of nurses. we have only just begun to see the effects.

    Quote from wje9516
    is it really just a matter of remaining positive, nose to grindstone, the workplace is always driven by gender and political issues....or is there a female groupthink, be it corrected politically but still harbored, that will make life more difficult for the male in this profession....i hear they are either harassed or cuddled depending on certain obvious attributes...!!

    thanks
    bill
    i agree bill .... a positive and can-do attitude will make all the difference in the world when you are a nurse. trust me, in a given day there is enough that goes on that could discourage even the toughest soul. but, we must move forward each day and know that we have indeed made a difference in the life of someone today. for me, that is what keeps me going. good luck with your studies and with your future nursing career.
  8. by   wje9516
    Quote from rnpatl
    actually, being a male and having been a nurse now for almost 21 years, i would agree that men tend to be welcome because of their strength, but simply set the rules .... you have to manage your work as much as they do. as far as age discrimination .... perhaps that is something in your mind as you begin to transition your career. most of the nurses that i work with are just happy to have the help ... they don't care how old you are or whether you changed careers so you could feed your family. all "we" care about is the fact that you are on the shift and can carry your own weight!



    one of the reasons nursing is so appealing to men these days is because there are so many different areas of nursing. if you find that floor nursing is not your bag, or you physically can not manage it, there are plenty of other areas that might suit your ability.



    actually, they have been importing nurses for years .... it is a great opportunity for some of those young people that want to make a life in the usa. i applaud their desire and efforts to get over here. i know i would be doing the same thing if i did not have the fortune of being born here. even with the imported nurses, there is still going to be a major (and already is) shortage of nurses. we have only just begun to see the effects.



    i agree bill .... a positive and can-do attitude will make all the difference in the world when you are a nurse. trust me, in a given day there is enough that goes on that could discourage even the toughest soul. but, we must move forward each day and know that we have indeed made a difference in the life of someone today. for me, that is what keeps me going. good luck with your studies and with your future nursing career.
    i want you to know that the potentially ethnocentric reference to the insourcing of foreign students, was not meant to be...and i have visited a few of these areas, and would understand motivations for looking beyond my bario etc., it's also interesting that many foreigners don't want anything to do with us either...understandable either way... visiting mexico city, tijuana, manila....quickly helps you understand with all your senses...believe me!!, what third world means...not from the ugly american perspective, but on a human level...you realize everything is relative to what you are used to, we are so spoiled here....at the same time, we all are products of the culture that surrounds us...i need to shut up...thanks for you response..

    bill
  9. by   Tweety
    Quote from wje9516
    This is a continuation of a former question....I have a BS in Finance...

    Do you guys notice the following...??

    Discrimination towards males in Nursing School or on the job, a tendency to view the male nurse as handy forklift?? Also, age discrimination especially as it relates to older men in nursing, (40's) (in other words, we are only in it either because we had to pick something due to economy etc., or we erroneously assume we will get into mgmt quicker than our female counterparts..) just the opposite I sure
    Honestly, can't say that I have. There are two males on my unit on night shift, and one male CNA, and the females are quite independent in their lifting and turning. We all help each other and I don't feel any discrimination. I work very hard and am a very good nurse.

    I've read on this board that many females work in environments where the males seem to be favored, get into management quicker and make more money. I definately don't see that where I work, but have to believe it might be true as people here have said so.

    I'm in my mid-40s and often am one of the oldest ones there on my shift. I don't notice any issues. In fact many people seem to appreciate my experience and come to me with questions and problems and asking my opinion on things.

    I think any issues we have in nursing be it being a male, or being older, is a matter of how we present ourselves and our passion for nursing. I can tell the male and female nurses who are in it for a job and paycheck and they have no warmth about them at all. I work circles around a lot of the younger folks I work with and am a preceptor and a charge nurse, and many times have been told I'm a role model.

    Quote from wje9516
    BIG QUESTION...I have a back that is fine as long as I don't use it much...!!! (pretty sure this is the kiss of death for nursing) I usually have to be careful with it....the thought of being off-center moving a heavy patient etc., makes my lower back flinch just sitting here..., doesn't take too much to make it tighten up, then it's downhill from there....re-injuring is a given if I have to keep doing whatever it was that injured it first...

    I am in great shape muscularly and cardio-wise, etc., but the back needs loving care...THIS is what scares me more than a male-hating bitter divorcee transferring her unresolved anger on me....I've worked in healthcare arenas, primarily female, and you learn not to take the male bashing too seriously...just don't get too comfortable and return the love...
    Male or female, you need your back in nursing and you need to guard it well. Nursing school teaches you good body mechanics. And as has been pointed out you can find jobs that don't require a lot of lifting. But getting through nursing school will be tough, and many jobs have physical requirements that must be documented upon hire.

    Quote from wje9516
    AND, whats your take on the VISA nursing importation issues...do you see this eating up demand over the next decades..this seems very disheartening...Admittedly, you need a heart to be an effective nurse, but also have to be pragmatic about your finances etc.,...
    Here's a good thread that explores many of our opinions on the subject of foreign workers. http://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87261




    Quote from wje9516
    Is it really just a matter of remaining positive, nose to grindstone, the workplace is always driven by gender and political issues....or is there a female groupthink, be it corrected politically but still harbored, that will make life more difficult for the male in this profession....I hear they are either harassed or cuddled depending on certain obvious attributes...!!

    Thanks
    Bill
    I'm not sure how to answer this because I don't know what female groupthink is. I do no that I personally don't fit into the "male groupthink" of dog eat dog, talking football and boobs, and competition.

    To me it's a matter of my passion for nursing and compassion for helping sick people. Yes, I definately need the paycheck and sometimes when I've had a run of stressed out days (like recently) it's only about the paycheck that keeps me going. If I were rich I definately wouldn't do this.

    So be positive, be profressional, keep the passion alive and you as a male will have no problem in nursing whatsoever.
  10. by   Thunderwolf
    I'd have to say that the guys and gals pull their fair share of lifting and hauling patients, watching their backs, on our floor. I agree, the men in nursing who seem to fit in the best with their female cohorts are the ones who want to provide the best nursing care and love doing so...it shows. They just enjoy giving good care and are good at putting others at ease, patients and female staff. The guys who act and talk like they're at a football game, walk around with their tongues hanging out when any woman walks past (constantly checking out her package), and present as macho cool tend to turn alot of female staff off...at least from what I've seen. Got a guy like that now on our floor. The female nurses sort of see him as God's example of how testosterone can go way wrong. He's a good nurse otherwise. But, from a personality standpoint, would have been a better fit at a construction site. I don't know. Just an observation.
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Dec 28, '04
  11. by   chris_at_lucas_RN
    There are always going to be differences between people who work on the team, and there will always be somebody petty (or ignorant) enough to make some deal out of it.

    So ignore them.

    I came to nursing by a very circuitous route, and it took me 45 years from the day I first knew that's what I wanted to do and be. And here I am, and of course there are those who ask (or behave as though they are thinking) "you're how old?"

    I have special talents in dealing with people who are upset, depressed, anxious, etc. I have been called on at times to deal with the more difficult patients. But face it, aren't the "difficult" ones just the ones we are either less able or less interested in taking care of?

    You will find your niche. You seem like a guy who is interested in patient care, if so, I wouldn't be in any rush to do the administrative thing.

    And, actually, what I've noticed (although my experience is limited by virtue of it's being only my experience) is that males are more likely to make unit manager or be promoted to some admin position. We are all slaves to our culture, and that includes some generalizations, many of which we are not aware, and which certainly don't keep up with superficial trends like developing technology or a realization that males can be as nurturing as females......

    Like I've said in the past, though maybe not here, we can't overcome thousands of years of interactional behaviors with fifty or even a hundred years of thinking and legislation.

    I'd just make sure I was taking care of myself. Don't say or do anything for which you could later be held responsible, keep a good attitude as part of your professional repertoire (go home and vent, but just ooze warmth and kindness at work), and prevent burnout.

    If it makes any difference, I'd just as soon have a nurse who happened to be male. Can't tell you why, don't know, except the ones I have worked with have been top notch. Absolutely top notch.

    So I guess that's my little generalization......
  12. by   GingerSue
    Hey Bill - Most of the male nurses with whom I've worked have been mature, dedicated, and interested in their patients. Good luck with your career.
  13. by   actioncat
    Actually, they really want men in nursing so it always seemed to me that the men were favored in nursing school. There did seem to be some attitude of "we are so grateful to have you here." Actually one of the male students I went to school with often admitted as much and laughed about it. I was glad that he could see it, but sometimes it is hard to see things like these when you are the one favored, so I don't fault some men for not seeing it. And, I am sure it is not true all the time. It seemed that they did not have to work as hard to get noticed. I also think men are represented in management out of proportion to their actual numbers in the field. This may be because men may desire this career path more, I don't know.

    It may be true that they get called on to do more than their share of heavy lifting, but women do an awfully lot too.

    The male nurses I have worked with have all been competent and caring individuals.

    Thanks Tweety for not dismissing some women's view of men in nursing!
  14. by   seghull
    Bill,
    The University of Washington has a master of science in nursing that it offers, and you do not have to be an RN to take it. It is for doing research.
    Sue

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