Do you feel more people are entering nursing only to become APRN's? - page 7
I am not a nurse yet, but I'm an EMT, have worked in and around the hospital, and I am currently finishing my last two prerequisite courses before applying for ABSN programs. It seems like 90% of my... Read More
Sep 16Quote from operationsHmm...foley, endotracheal tube.....it might be a toss up on which is easier to place in some patients! Especially if one is sedated in the OR and the other is awake on the floor...Actually I just noticed this. I worked on CCU and everyone there had plans of going somewhere else. It is fine and all, but I remember one new grad that was terrible with foleys at first and always needed (me, the tech) to help or take over. Within months she is being accepted to CNA school. I had no clue they could get in that quickly... But she did, and suddenly she was the holy queen God, correcting everyone as if she was so exceptional and talented... You can manage to handle putting a tube in a bladder how you gonna manage putting one in lungs?
Sep 16This thread is so discouraging. May the AMA not come across it.
There are nurses who rather get years of RN experience before becoming NPs; however -
With more employers instantly siding with whiny patients and would not hesitate to replace a RN with another (thank in part to the HCAHPS scores), the constant changes to the NP programs (for example - converting from MSN to DNP programs), and mother nature...
Can one blame a nurse for wanting to get into a NP program as soon as he/she can?
Also - Would you rather have a nurse get NO nursing experience before becoming a NP? Yeah, it gets aggravating to keep teaching a new scrub, especially if that new scrub is a know-it-all, but, imo, it keeps one on one's toes. Plus, not all new are ingrates.Last edit by DTWriter on Sep 16
Sep 16Obviously this is happening.
New nurses know that all you need is some experience and few years of grad school to get a comfortable 9-5 job with no nights, holidays, and weekends. Most pay even better than bedside care.
Only in nursing is there a culture that decries people for wanted to improve themselves professionally. Accept the reality that there will be a huge decrease in the number of experienced bedside nurses. Young people don't want to deal with the nonsense of being a shift worker.
Sep 16Quote from llgI was taking a broad-jump guess on school costs and also including the cost of time, supplies, incidentals and lost wages. I will happily get my BSN if someone else pays for (at least) most of it.1. I don't know why you would pay so much for a BSN. With tuition reimbursement, it can be done a lot cheaper than that in my neck of the woods.
2. We require new employees to go back to school for all RN jobs, not just the ones in ICU -- unless they have significant experience in pediatrics. They don't need to complete it before hire, but they have to be working towards. So it can be done cheaply if you take a few years to do it using tuition reimbursement. (I work for a children's hospital.)
Unlike a lot of new grad RNs, I'm not looking for the fabulous teaching hospital job either. I will prefer to be in a smaller hospital where I may get to know my community better. Also, although I lack the formal instruction of teaching patients and formal community health classes, that has been effectively my career up to this point. The facility I work in now recognized that not all knowledge and ability comes from the classroom. Of course this experience isn't available in the 22 year old new grad, it comes with wrinkles and grey hairs. (Jeez, I sounded snotty and defensive, must be the night shift drowsies talking.)
Sep 16Quote from CKPM2RNAll the BSN completion programs I've known of over the years are organized around the premise that the students are working full-time. There are no "lost wages" to include in your calculations -- unless someone is accustomed to working a lot of overtime and might want to cut back on that to free up time for schoolwork. But there is certainly no need to stop working, or even cut back to working part-time, in order to complete a BSN.I was taking a broad-jump guess on school costs and also including the cost of time, supplies, incidentals and lost wages.
Sep 16Yes many more nurses are planning on using bedside nursing as a paid residency and going on to NP. It is a viable alternative to medical school if you don't want to specialize, saves time, money and student loan debt. Also working conditions at the bedside are also leading many nurses to flee and pursue other options like NP and I don't blame them. They are really the smart ones as things are unlikely to improve with corporations running the show and trying to squeeze profit at the expense of patients and healthcare workers. If I was younger I would do it too. As it is I'm just counting down to retirement the sooner the better and saving all my money to retire early!
Sep 16Quote from llgYou make some good points. There is a, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" element in this situation. I believe all "sides" of the situation evolved simultaneously. It's more complicated than "1 aspect caused another."
But ... now that we are in this mess ... we have to consider all of the elements simultaneously in order to move forward. Anyone, looking at any angle is likely to make matters worse by focusing on only 1 aspect of the situation.
1. Yes, some nurses have been treated very badly by the many elements within the health care system. That needs to stop.
2. Some nurses come into hospitals with woefully inadequate preparation for the complexities of the job they have accepted. That also needs to stop.
3. Some schools have the hidden agenda of wanting to recruit their undergraduates into their graduate programs -- and do so at the expense of their preparation for hospital-based careers. I talk to many, many students who have NO knowledge of career pathways "up the ladder" for hospital-based nurses. The only things they have even heard about are the programs offered by the school they attend. We should try to stop that, too.
4. As alternative roles have become more available to nurses, we need to rethink the basic career advice given to students about the necessity of "1-2 years of bedside experience." I have heard many experienced nurses say that -- both hospital-based nurses and faculty members. That philosophy is hurting our hospitals' finances severely and causing more strain on the staff nurses who work at the bedside. New models of education/training are needed. We can't keep counting on the hospitals to provide such education to people who have no interest in working in the hospital.
A lot of work needs to be done and many different fronts to address this problem -- both to make hospital roles more attractive -- and to get those people with no interest in hospital work out of our hospital education programs.
I went to an information session this morning for an ABSN program at a local state school here in Southern California. They were already pushing the subject of while you're in the ABSN program, you can apply to start the MSN/NP program so once you're done with the ABSN, you transition right into the NP program.
Sep 16Quote from operationsIt wasn't me that made the comment of you putting CNA. When I originally read your post, I actually didn't even catch that you had put CNA, as based on the content, I knew you were talking about CRNA. When someone pointed it out, I thought their reply was funny. I found it funny because we all knew what you meant, it's not a big deal. I apologize if I upset you.Really? That's actually pretty pathetic. If you read the post you wouldn't need to be told I was talking about CRNA. Like I literally described the role. How juvinille.
Sep 16Working on pre reqs right now, but my plan is to go as far as possible if things play out. I would love to become a NP and long term goal wise its on my list, But we shall see.
Sep 16It's probably because you are going for an ABSN program. In my ABSN program, the students were just the type of go-getters who wanted to go further in their education. Ditto for BSN students vs RN-program students. There are plenty of of people who want to be/are RNs as a terminal career destination, as you will see in your various clinical sites soon.
Sep 17It's kinda sad, nursing has created this problem for itself. Nursing as a whole seems to want elevate itself compared to MD's. It seems as though leaders in nursing are always comparing themselves to MD's. I tell our new grad employees that our professions are different, MD's diagnose and prescribe treatment, nurses implement that treatment and care for patients. We need more nurses that want to care for patients and less that want to compare themselves to MD's.
Sep 17Bedside nursing should not be used as a residency program for future NPs. This is unfair to RN staff, RNs who truly want a nursing career, and RN employers. Employee "churn" is not only disruptive, it is expensive. It costs employers $30K to $50K to replace employees.
RN jobs should be for RNs who desire a career in nursing. There are a lot of new grad RNs who have trouble enough finding a job.
NP residences should be encouraged to provide NPs with adequate clinical experience as an NP. NP clinical experience is what new NPs need.