Do doctors really yell at you, and get away with it?

[copyandpaste]

I was asked in my interview for nursing school to rank the level of importance of the following things from 1-10. And they asked things like "your patient isnt eating", "your classmate takes money from a patient during clinicals", and one of them said "the doctor yells at you". I ranked it the lowest because I figured he'd get over it.

But the thing is: I began to wonder how often that happens, why did they ask me if it isnt something Im certain to run into more than once?

Cant you just report the doc? I mean, do they get away with that sort of thing??

I can see if you work in their family practice clinic maybe, but what about a hospital setting?

Thanks for your responses.

[nursel56]

2ndwind-- It was hilarious!!! And the guy who was the Chief, was the mellowest, most low-key sweetheart you can imagine. He just s l o w l y sauntered down the hall toward Mount Officefurniture. Poor man. I would have paid admission to see that. I've always found absurd things funny. I have a few. . . l mean really, how can you keep a straight face when the doctor you are assisting with a pelvic tells the patient, "wow, it looks like a cottage cheese factory in there!" bwa hahahaha!!

[lotusnbloom]

Yes they do - unfortunately.

From my experience - it seems to depend on the doctor. They give themselves reputations (as we all do ) and once you know what to expect you figure out how to communicate more efficiently with that person. Although it doesn't always work.

When I was a new grad it happened once with a certain doctor who had a horrible reputation of being very labile, you never knew what to expect ( was he going to yell or be charismatic and charming) I let it go figuring the doctor was having a bad day. But it kept happening to multiple staff and I had finally had enough. - I wrote him up and of course nothing happened - other than he wouldn't talk to me for a month. I tried to talk to him about it and find out what happened in our communication so that we could avoid anything like that again. All he would say to me is " You should know, you wrote me up." It was one of the most horrible days I can remember in my short 4 years of nursing. It was in front of my patient and all of my co-workers. I left the floor sobbing - and thinking to myself - "I can't doing this - I can abuse myself I don't need someone else to do it for me". Thankfully I didn't leave the consequences would have been far worse than him yelling at me. I pulled myself together and went back to the floor.

One of my co-workers told me to smile at the doctor and when he was done ask him "what are we going to do to take care of the patient"? She had a few other pearls to share with me for which I am very grateful for.

In respect to your numerical value of importance - keep it at the bottom. At the end of the day if your patient is still alive and you have done the very best you can do - the words don't matter. We all have bad days but if it becomes an issue stand up for yourself.

[eriksoln, BSN, RN]

I used to be meek and shy but not so much anymore.

I work in a large practice with 15 docs of varying personalities and temperaments. I get along with all of them. However, I try to have my ducks in a row when I call them too and not waste their time. Respect works both ways - all of them talk/email me too with their concerns/questions.

BS.

I've been on the business side of some of your scoldings and know you were NEVER meek or shy.

[GadgetRN71, ASN, RN]

Some do it because they don't get called on it. I refuse to stand there and be sworn at, yelled at by a doctor. I have said "when you can discuss this topic in a calm professional manner, come find me" and then walked away. Doctors do not sign your paycheck and I have little sympathy for those that get peeved because the nurse is calling them-I don't care if it's 11pm-since when is medicine a 9-5 gig?

So no, they don't get away with it. If I think they are being unreasonable, I say so.Also, many, many ways to exact revenge on a jerk of a surgeon...all of a sudden, turnover times for his room are LOOOONG, wonder why that is?

[abbnurse]

Yes, it does happen from time to time......I once saw a fellow nurse respond with the "oh no, you didn't !" index finger wave, but it seemed rather inappropriate for both parties to act that way (while at the nurses's station!) and just escalated the situation......but seriously, you guys, it was kind of funny, because the MD finally looked horrified and apologized.

The only time a doc really snipped my head off, I was shocked because I had a great working relationship with him. I knew, though, that his daughter was gravely ill and that he was just exhausted and very sad. But I still went in the bathroom and cried because I had PMS.

In my experience the younger docs seem to see themselves more as part of a healtcare team and are just generally more collaborative than some of the older docs who have always been treated like they are KINGS. But really, I just don't let it get to me when one of the docs power-trips. As long as the patient gets the care they need, the doc can trip all he or she wants!

[maxthecat]

In my experience....

Most physicians are courteous and polite, and if they do get a little snappish will usually apologize if you calmly point out how their behavior is coming across to you.

Some physicians will "try it on" with a new nurse and if you politely but firmly stand up to them they respect you and leave you alone after that.

However, if the physician is a leading moneymaker for the hospital and in a hard-to-replace specialty, he or she can be as abusive as he or she likes--throwing charts, kicking chairs across the room, screaming....the physician will stay, the uppity nurses who report the behavior will have their jobs threatened. Being told that "the chief of staff will speak to him about this" doesn't mean much when the behavior never changes. Don't see it nearly as much these days, but it does still occur in some places. You can still work with these types, basically ignoring the tantrum till it winds down and then asking what is wanted for the patient at this point in time. (Raised eyebrows and a look that is a mixture of pity and disgust are satisfying, too.) You have to look at it like a two year old having a tantrum--it's not personal, even when it sounds like it is. Yes, you can learn to work with "King Baby." The question is, do you want to work in an institution that allows its nurses to be demeaned in that manner.

[nursel56]

BS.

I've been on the business side of some of your scoldings and know you were NEVER meek or shy.

Erik. +1

Now if we can all keep this sense of humor when the s*** hits the fan, we won't need to get those nasty migraines and broken teeth from wailing and gnashing about some d-bag who isn't worth the time of day. Onward! :)

[HollyHobby]

For most of my career, I worked in a city where the physicians were allowed to do pretty much anything they wished. There were two hospitals there, and most of the docs worked at both places, so there was no escaping it except to move far away, which I eventually did.

In one case, a surgeon punched a nurse in the face. She sued him, but otherwise he faced no consequences. His privileges weren't suspended. Throwing things (even throwing things AT nurses, such as a bloody scalpel and a severed leg to name two actual examples), yelling, and shrieking at nurses in front of patients and families was the norm. Our unit's medical director was famous for berating nurses, even when the nurse wasn't at fault. For example, a friend of mine received a 20-minute shrieking session from the thoracic surgeon because the neurosurgeon had ordered blood pressure parameters the thoracic guy didn't like.

So many nurses were upset by this that our hospital implemented a policy for dealing with abusive doctors. It said that when a nurse was being yelled at by a doctor, she must not speak, but stand quietly, and not cross her arms over her chest. Other nurses were allowed to stand nearby to offer support, but they must not speak either.

When I moved away and started working in another hospital, I was astonished to find that tolerating constant abuse was not the norm. In my new place, doctors worked with the nurses, instead of using them as punching bags. No yelling, no physical threats of violence. It is heavenly!

If I were to move back and work at my old hospital again, I would not tolerate being abused. But I tolerated it then because I was taught that it was normal and we just had to cope with it.

[MzMouse]

I work in a clinic as primary nurse for a general surgeon. In my ten years working with two different surgeons I have never had a doctor yell at me.

[Katie5]

No, not all doctors yell at you.I've never been yelled at. Most of the doctors I work with are nice and soft-spoken.

This is just a fallacy people buy into with the media/shows exacerbating it...and in some cases, even making it look sexy and masculine on TV shows. Please don't buy into it.

Granted, some may have bad temperament, but hey who doesn't?Your DON, co-worker (females) may also have bad days or PMS. It's happens.We either get over it, make known to the person that such behavior is unacceptable or be understanding that such a person was under pressure at the time and is not ordinarily like that.

[Phase2Pro]

Once I said..."Did I get drunk and we get married during the black out? Because only my exhusband has ever spoken to me this way." But generally the doctors have been respectful. I did have one surgeon, whom I was not actually speaking to, literally stamp his feet and yell about a family member recently though. I had gone to retrieve the anesthesiologist to speak to the patient's daughter and the surgeon caught wind of the request and threw a tantrum. I was quite shocked, both by his behavior and by the fact that I had no idea why he cared in the first place. It was just a wait of breath and adrenaline on his part and made him look like an idiot.

[Gerlich8]

I work in a CV ICU and I have never seen a Doc yell at a nurse or been yelled at. I've heard of Doc's yelling, but I've never seen it in the ICU. I have had incidents where a Doc got mouthy with me but I did not let them get away with it. I stood my ground and looked him in the eyes and didn't leave his side until he wrote the orders I wanted and he walked off the unit.

I once had an encounter with a CV doc who came on to our unit late at night and was already upset with the care his patient was receiving because the nurse had "let" the pt pull out a chest tube. The pt was 89, confused, Cab X 4, Alz, and only spoke spanish. He wanted me to walk the patien, when the patient was not able to support his own weight and was confused and pulling out lines. I told him it wasn't safe and I would not get him out of bed for safety issues but if he wanted to we could get a PT consult. He then proceded to call nurses lazy and accuse the day nurse of letting the pt pull his lines out. I defended the day nurse and explained that nurses are not lazy but we are pt advocates and we will not endanger our pt's by gettig them out of bed when they are confused, weak, and may hurt themselves. We then had a little back and forth argument over third spacing and he said I didn't know what I was talking about so I asked him to break it down for me because " I want to be educated on the matter if I am missinformed" he said he didn't have time to explain it and I told him he should consider and inservice for the staff. In the end he wrote me the orders for PT,Albumine and lasix like I wanted and signed my restraint orders.:) Before he left the unit he mumbled under his breath that the pt wasn't third spacing...... What ever; thanks for the lasix Doc.

Since then I've made it a point to ask him whats up? when he walks on to the unit, and I always make recomendations on patient care issues, and I engage him every oportunity I get. Now he eats out of my hand.

With that said, you better believe I wrote a strongly worded letter to my Nurse manager about his behavior towards me, and how obstinate, an hostile his reactions were to my patient care recommendations. The letter ended up being forwarded to his head and he was talked to about the insident. To this day he has never brought up the letter. I stuck to the facts and there was nothing he could say to rebuke it.

What really works for me is engaging the docs, and staff at work. I make sure they know my name and who I am and that my number one concern is my pt. And I also make sure to know their names and I keep a note pad full of their prefrences so I know what to do for their patients if I can't get them on the phone. It works for me.