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Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich



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No. 160
from janfrn
Old Jan 03, 2009, 01:04 AM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
I'd like to second the staff request from Elvish to keep things friendly and reasonable. I'd alos like to ask that we keep the thread on-topic. I have read every single post on this thread, all 159 of them and would like to offer the following recap of the actual issues...

Truth66 is an RN in a unionized Canadian long-term care facility. The prevailing collective agreement in place provides for all staff members to purchase their meals on-site. Recently the dietary department of the facility changed the availability of the "meal of the day" such that the LPNs and CNAs are no longer able to purchase this meal and are being offered soup and sandwiches instead because the timing of their lunch breaks as dictated by the DoN, is outside the hours that the "meal of the day" is being served. The RNs, administrative staff, housekeeping, social work and therapy staff are all able to access the "meal of the day". Truth66 feels that this is discriminatory toward the LPNs and CNAs and has brought the issue to this forum for validation of her opinion that this is unfair and should be addressed. The meals are not free, as some posters here have argued, and the issues are fairness toward a lower echelon of employees in their access to the better quality "meal of the day" and the legalities of unilateral deviation from a negotiated and legally-binding contract. Let's use roast beef, mashed potatoes and gravy, steamed carrots and apple pie, compared to chicken noodle soup, egg salad sandwich and apple pie. It connotes a caste system where the upper class receives a much higher level of benefit than the lower class. What Truth66 is advocating is equality across the board. I believe that she would be satisfied if ALL staff were in the soup-and-sandwich category, because that would be fair. The other issue of contractual tinkering is also valid and grievable.

Arguments based on the state of the economy, decreased reimbursements, potential layoffs, potential facility closures and so on are not germane to this discussion because in Canada our economy is somewhat more stable due to the degree of regulation our banking industry is subject to. There is a collateral effect from the extreme pressures in the US but our economy is much healthier at this time. Our health care facilities are publicly funded and unionized; the likelihood of closure is very small. Canada does not have the bed capacity that would allow for any of them to be lost. There will be some belt-tightening but since there are already insufficient nurses or ancillary staff for the workload, layoffs aren't likely to be included. Again, the issue as raised by Truth66 is one of fairness.
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No. 161
Old Jan 03, 2009, 07:57 AM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
It doesn't matter if YOU (whoever management, people reading this thread) think this is silly (and maybe it is), the LPNS and CNAs at this facility are unhappy. Management would be wise to try and come up with something more equitable. Discontents can magnify and multiply once people feel slighted even when they truly aren't being treated differently. Perception is everything.
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No. 162
Old Jan 03, 2009, 09:59 AM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
There is NO institutional food out there that is GOOD for you to eat to begin with....You are safer eating your own food....You keep eating their food and you'll end up a patient!
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No. 163
from patrick1rn
Old Jan 03, 2009, 10:02 AM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
It matters to me, I think it is funny. I am curious though, withasmileLPN, what would your solution be to the problem ?
If you ask me, make sure the people on the lower end of the totem pole get to eat the full meal such as the CNAs and the LPNs and lastly the RNs get to eat the sandwich meals. But then again, that comes from my military background.
Sure treat everyone with respect, but at work, people are treated according to the work that they do.
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No. 164
from Atheos
Old Jan 03, 2009, 01:44 PM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
Well with the recap of events this entire argument is kind of bunk. LEt me lay out why.


1. The agreement states that ALL employees have the opportunity to buy lunch.

This has not changed in the least. The lunches available at different times may be different but the contract doesn't say 'the same lunch' just lunch.

2. There is not REALLY any discrimination of lower echelon employees.

Everyone is considering the LPNs and CNAs the lower echelon employees. Umm what about housekeeping. They are lower than CNAs. Yet, due to the flexibility of housekeeping they can eat whenever.

3. Is this REALLY a valid complaint?

Of ALL the things that go on in LTC is this the BIGGEST issue?

If this is the biggest issue be HAPPY. After being in nursing for 9+ years I've come to realize that if they gave us all cars and 500000 dollars a year salary soemone would complain that the cars weren't BMWs...



4. Complaints of a caste system.

Sorry to bust anyone's bubble but there IS a caste system and rightfully so. The CEO is worth more than the middle manager is worth more than the DON is worth more than a floor RN is worth more than a CNA is worth more than a housekeeper. Despite that, there is NO indication that this is 'discrimination.' At most this was a business decision that didn't take into account the 'feelings' of LPNs and CNAs. While a little rude, there is nothing inherently wrong with their decision.

5. Broken contract???

If the contract stipulates 'Food' then you are out of luck. If it stipulates 'The same food as the RNs and Admin' then you have a case.




ETA:

I think we need a thread to discuss what 'Discrimination' really means. Pfft...
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No. 165
Old Jan 03, 2009, 02:07 PM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
It's amazing how long this thread it and the passion it evoked in some of the members here. Fascinating.
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No. 166
Old Jan 03, 2009, 04:58 PM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
Originally Posted by patrick1rn View Post
It matters to me, I think it is funny. I am curious though, withasmileLPN, what would your solution be to the problem ?
If you ask me, make sure the people on the lower end of the totem pole get to eat the full meal such as the CNAs and the LPNs and lastly the RNs get to eat the sandwich meals. But then again, that comes from my military background.
Sure treat everyone with respect, but at work, people are treated according to the work that they do.
I already think that if it were up to me, I'd change it so that soup and sandwiches are for lunch for everyone.
1. It would save the facility money.
2. It is fair.
I'm sure that the kitchen probably had a good reason to change their policy, maybe not enough help?
3. Rotating lunches seemed like a good idea, but the DON seems opposed to it. Maybe because they did it on their own?
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No. 167
Old Jan 03, 2009, 05:05 PM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
[quote=Stanley-RN2B;3350534]Well with the recap of events this entire argument is kind of bunk. LEt me lay out why.


1. The agreement states that ALL employees have the opportunity to buy lunch.

This has not changed in the least. The lunches available at different times may be different but the contract doesn't say 'the same lunch' just lunch.

2. There is not REALLY any discrimination of lower echelon employees.

Everyone is considering the LPNs and CNAs the lower echelon employees. Umm what about housekeeping. They are lower than CNAs. Yet, due to the flexibility of housekeeping they can eat whenever.

3. Is this REALLY a valid complaint?

Of ALL the things that go on in LTC is this the BIGGEST issue?

If this is the biggest issue be HAPPY. After being in nursing for 9+ years I've come to realize that if they gave us all cars and 500000 dollars a year salary soemone would complain that the cars weren't BMWs...


4. Complaints of a caste system.

Sorry to bust anyone's bubble but there IS a caste system and rightfully so. The CEO is worth more than the middle manager is worth more than the DON is worth more than a floor RN is worth more than a CNA is worth more than a housekeeper. Despite that, there is NO indication that this is 'discrimination.' At most this was a business decision that didn't take into account the 'feelings' of LPNs and CNAs. While a little rude, there is nothing inherently wrong with their decision.

5. Broken contract???

If the contract stipulates 'Food' then you are out of luck. If it stipulates 'The same food as the RNs and Admin' then you have a case.




ETA:

I think we need a thread to discuss what 'Discrimination' really means. Pfft...[/quo


If they are upset, it needs to be addressed-silly or not. Good places to work consider their employees, bad do not. "Feelings" can festor and are part of what motivates people.
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No. 168
from Atheos
Old Jan 03, 2009, 05:12 PM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
Originally Posted by withasmilelpn View Post
If they are upset, it needs to be addressed-silly or not. Good places to work consider their employees, bad do not. "Feelings" can festor and are part of what motivates people.
Absolutely right.

However, seeing as this is a 'MAJOR' concern, we can infer that this IS a good place.

If it were a bad place then I seriously doubt this concern would even be on their radar.

This is a mountain out a molehill...
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No. 169
from Fiona59
Old Jan 03, 2009, 05:46 PM

Default Re: Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich
Did anyone read Jan's post, or the comments by the Canadians on this Canadian issue? We run healthcare very differently up here. The CEO of my health authority rarely sets foot out of the ivory tower downtown, let alone grace the halls of my hospital.
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