Covert Pelvic Exams??! - page 2

I can't find a link to the story, but read in my local paper today that some medical schools have decided to stop allowing 2 to 4 medical students do pelvic exams on female patients who are... Read More

  1. by   PowerPuffGirl
    I think the key point is the issue of consent.

    Now, if I was asked permission to have a student or two practice a pelvic on me, when I was under anesthesia, I'd probably consent...

    But, I found be outraged if I found out, after the fact, that anywhere from 2-??? students used me as a pelvic-puppet... I would feel extremely violated.

    As I said, it all goes back to consent. If my consent is not obtained, than there's this paternalistic "what the little lady doesn't know, won't hurt her" sort of attitude.
  2. by   OBNURSEHEATHER
    Originally posted by PowerPuffGirl
    pelvic-puppet...
    Oh, now that's funny.
  3. by   jnette
    Originally posted by PowerPuffGirl consent...

    But, I found be outraged if I found out, after the fact, that anywhere from 2-??? students used me as a pelvic-puppet... I would feel extremely violated.

    As I said, it all goes back to consent. If my consent is not obtained, than there's this paternalistic "what the little lady doesn't know, won't hurt her" sort of attitude. [/B]
    Amen !
    Da** !!! Sure didn't know THIS goes on out there !
    How rude. Kinda like being drugged, then raped. What a bunch of crap THAT is !
  4. by   PowerPuffGirl
    Another very interesting article on this topic...

    www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/5357457.htm
  5. by   emily_mom
    Thanks for the link. That last paragraph really says it all!

    Kristy
  6. by   kittyw
    Even if it was on the authorization form, if the print was of a different (smaller) size or written in such language that the average person would not be able to understand, then there was no real consent. It would be interesting to see an actual consent form used.

    Our school uses paid surrogates. $50 per exam. We did 4 exams in about 15 minutes total. Not bad pay if it doesn't bother you.
  7. by   EmeraldNYL
    Yikes..... I know my fiance's med school hires an ex-prostitute so they can learn how to do pelvic exams.
  8. by   discarded APN
    Here's another related article. They say that the consent will stay the same, but now the patient will be informed of the exam and given the chance to decline. Seems they thought they were "covering" themselves by getting "consent" just decided to play dumb on the INFORMED part.

    Medical College of Wisconsin revises pelvic exam policy
    By MARILYNN MARCHIONE
    mmarchione@journalsentinel.com
    Last Updated: March 12, 2003
    Medical College of Wisconsin officials agreed Wednesday to stop performing pelvic exams on unconscious, anesthetized women having surgeries or other procedures without getting their specific consent in advance.

    The college acted after being called by state Reps. Mark Gundrum (R-New Berlin) and Sheldon Wasserman (D-Milwaukee), who read a newspaper article Wednesday about prominent medical schools around the country abandoning the practice.

    Gundrum and Wasserman, a Milwaukee-area obstetrician-gynecologist, learned Wednesday that the University of Wisconsin Medical School has been getting written consent before such examinations for years, but that the Medical College of Wisconsin has not.

    The Wauwatosa medical college uses paid volunteers in training first- and second-year medical students on how to do pelvic exams, said Richard Katschke, the school's associate vice president.

    However, medical residents and third- and fourth-year students doing OB/GYN rotations have been permitted to do pelvic exams on any patients having procedures for which an exam is required.

    Every patient having surgery at a medical college facility signs a form consenting to medical students' and residents' participation in their care in general, and "it has been deemed that that would be consent for any kind of educational activity," he said.

    On Wednesday, Dwight Cruikshank, chairman of the medical college's department of obstetrics and gynecology, agreed to change the school's policy immediately.

    The consent form will stay the same, but women will be told about the pelvic exam and offered the chance to decline having a student perform it, Katschke said.




    A version of this story appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on March 13, 2003.
  9. by   P_RN
    Not exactly the same but once my neurologist asked if I minded having two medical students sit in on my exam......I said I did not want them there.

    The next day, I overheard those two medical students in the CAFETERIA joking and laughing about the pathetic, staggering patients they had seen yesterday, and how some snotty nurse had refused.

    I then picked up the phone and called my doctor.
    Never saw those two again.
  10. by   Furball
    If they would just ASK...geesh! I took my son in to have a heart murmur evaluated a while back. The cardiologist asked if it was ok with me if a bunch of med students came in to listen to my son's heart...I said "sure!" About 10 of them marched in and my son sat and smiled through the whole thing. He felt special...boy!

    Now..a PELVIC EXAM without your knowledge or consent? That is outrageous! I'm flabbergasted....
  11. by   BernieO
    I am an ovarian cancer survivor. I get pelvic exams every 3 months from my gyne/oncologist in a large teaching university clinic. Each exam, a medical student also does the pelvic. My doctor always asks first and I am pleased to help a future doctor learn about ovarian cancer detection. The exams are always done in a professional manner.
  12. by   Mimi Wheeze
    I'm glad you're doing well, Bernie!

    I wonder if men get an audience when they are drugged with butt-up in the air having hemorrhoid surgery.

    Of course, men would probably just enjoy it.
  13. by   kids
    I have anesthetized for multiple gyn procedures.
    Some were done at teaching hospitals.
    I was never asked or told that students may do pelvic exams on me, had I been I would have refused.
    I can't help but wonder how much if any of my post-procedure pain was caused by the fumblings of an inept student.
    I feel kind of sick now.

close