Consequences of Bad Choices - page 4

I was recently involved in a multidisciplinary team evaluation of a patient who attempted suicide by placing a shotgun in his mouth. He survived the attempt but was left with only half a face. I... Read More

  1. by   Noney
    On another angle....

    Has the wife been offered therapy? I would think anyone would deserve the offer rather it be the first time or the third..


    Noney
  2. by   hbscott
    Quote from stevielynn
    I'm not sure what Deb is referring to . . .the privacy violations (HIPAA) or the question I raised about monitoring the wife's visits and if that is legal. Deb?

    steph
    There is no HIPPA violation. Anonymous case studies are presented in professional journals all the time.

    In regards to the issue of legality concerning the wife's visitation the legal question (still not answered) is there a prescriptive duty for the incompetent patient to protect him from a potentially harmful spouse?

    In regards to approving or disapproving such posts as these, that is your right as it is my right to raise such questions. One's approval or disapproval has a social consequence but is not in the realm of ethics, law and duty.

    -HBS
  3. by   TexasNS
    Quote from stevielynn
    I'm not sure what Deb is referring to . . .the privacy violations (HIPAA) or the question I raised about monitoring the wife's visits and if that is legal. Deb?

    steph
    That is a good question. I had to go back and read the post again due to the fact that after reading it and reading all the post I had it in my mind that the patient was on a mental health floor, which then you have every right to have monitored visitation. Now since I believe this is on a medical floor that does make one wonder. Personally I dont think you can legally stop the visitation or alter it on a case by case basis. I say alow the visitation and do what you can to "monitor" it legally.
  4. by   hbscott
    Quote from Noney
    On another angle....

    Has the wife been offered therapy? I would think anyone would deserve the offer rather it be the first time or the third..


    Noney
    Good question and another idea not considered until now. Thank you.

    -HBS
  5. by   TexasNS
    Quote from Noney
    On another angle....

    Has the wife been offered therapy? I would think anyone would deserve the offer rather it be the first time or the third..


    Noney

    Now that got my mind going...

    We have another victim/patient that alot of us were not even considering. Lets say the woman is innocent. Could you imagine the trauma she is going through? This woman needs help as well.
  6. by   hbscott
    Quote from TexasNS
    That is a good question. I had to go back and read the post again due to the fact that after reading it and reading all the post I had it in my mind that the patient was on a mental health floor, which then you have every right to have monitored visitation. Now since I believe this is on a medical floor that does make one wonder. Personally I dont think you can legally stop the visitation or alter it on a case by case basis. I say alow the visitation and do what you can to "monitor" it legally.
    Patients and other persons in our society are subjected to restrictions, confinement, and other regulated actions for many different reasons.

    A patient who is not alert, oriented, and can not care for himself is deemed a ward of the institution charged with his care until he recovers or another entity assumes care and responsibility for that individual.

    It would be helpful if someone could cite the case law and/or the principle of duty and ethics for opposing view points.

    -HBS
  7. by   KMSRN
    I'll bite. It is highly unlikely that a woman would have 3 husbands attempting (or committing) suicide. Not impossible, but unlikely. Maybe she gets her kicks from talking men into committing suicide. Being abusive toward someone doesn't make them suicidal unless they have those leanings already IMHO. Maybe she is drawn to unstable men and pushes them over the edge. If that is true, she could be very damaging to a man who has a long road to heal physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Probably can't stop her from seeing him but I think the situation should definitely be monitored.
  8. by   hbscott
    Quote from KMSRN
    I'll bite. It is highly unlikely that a woman would have 3 husbands attempting (or committing) suicide. Not impossible, but unlikely. Maybe she gets her kicks from talking men into committing suicide. Being abusive toward someone doesn't make them suicidal unless they have those leanings already IMHO. Maybe she is drawn to unstable men and pushes them over the edge. If that is true, she could be very damaging to a man who has a long road to heal physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Probably can't stop her from seeing him but I think the situation should definitely be monitored.
    If a visitor (spouse or not) is of potential harm to an incompetent patient the question remains what to do? The consensus seems to be allow monitored visits and then evaluate for further disposition?

    Fair synopsis?

    -HBS
  9. by   NurseDiva04
    I would have to agree with Texas. Ladies, especially those of us who are single, divorced, etc., how many times have we dated a person on a serious basis and then discover "Why is it that I seem to meet the same type of men? Do I have a sign on my forehead?" I know I am very guilty. Now, I have not had one to commit suicide but my ex husband did threaten a couple of times; he is with 3rd wife, probably doing the same thing.

    I am not saying that this wife is innocent, however, co-dependency can mess your head up!

    Quote from TexasNS
    Personally I do think it is odd but I will try to present a different point of view. I think it is extreamly plausable that a woman could find three men that would eventually commit or attempt suicide. This of course would be on the extreme side of co-dependancy. What an awsome case to learn from though. Emotional abuse is very possible but I dont think there would be three that would go to that extreme. Maybe one but surely the others would just leave. But on the other hand for 1 woman to seek out "broken people" and try and be their healer (co-dependant) is very possible. Give the visitation monitered and see what can be learned about her personality.
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from hbscott
    There is no HIPPA violation. Anonymous case studies are presented in professional journals all the time.

    -HBS
    True. But are most anonymous case studies this unusual? How many cases of three husbands committing suicide -- all married to the same woman -- could there be? Not to mention, two of the husbands are dead and the other survives with half of his face missing. I wouldn't be surprized if there is only one case like this in the entire country. No matter how much you edit the other details, I guess I just don't understand how this can be completely anonymous. Or, maybe I'm just too paranoid and dumb to know the difference.
  11. by   hbscott
    Quote from NurseDiva04
    I would have to agree with Texas. Ladies, especially those of us who are single, divorced, etc., how many times have we dated a person on a serious basis and then discover "Why is it that I seem to meet the same type of men? Do I have a sign on my forehead?" I know I am very guilty. Now, I have not had one to commit suicide but my ex husband did threaten a couple of times; he is with 3rd wife, probably doing the same thing.

    I am not saying that this wife is innocent, however, co-dependency can mess your head up!
    Interesting. I did say in the original post that on the care team opinions about the potential harm of the spouse was split down gender lines. After reading these posts I now better understand why. It seems that experience does color one's perspective.

    -HBS
  12. by   hbscott
    Quote from lizz
    True. But are most anonymous case studies this unusual? How many cases of three husbands committing suicide -- all married to the same woman -- could there be? Not to mention, two of the husbands are dead and the other survives with half of his face missing. I wouldn't be surprized if there is only one case like this in the entire country. No matter how much you edit the other details, I guess I just don't understand how this can be completely anonymous. Or, maybe I'm just too paranoid and dumb to know the difference.
    Since this case is so unusual I suspect you will be reading about it in many different professional journals in the months and years to come. There will be many interventions to include surgical and psychiatric that will be reported on for peer review.

    -HBS
  13. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from hbscott
    If a visitor (spouse or not) is of potential harm to an incompetent patient the question remains what to do? The consensus seems to be allow monitored visits and then evaluate for further disposition?

    Fair synopsis?

    -HBS
    "allow" monitored visits? is there a choice? can anyone again, legally stop her without cause?

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