CNA's passing meds - page 8

I have heard tales that in some states the CNA's are the ones who pass meds. I was just wondering if any of you live in any of these states that supposedly do this and if the CNA courses are more... Read More

  1. by   oldgirl
    Mario notes that he doesn't have contact with meds in his acute care setting-"except for the ones left by Pt's in the white cups" Patients not taking what you have signed off giving them is a BIG med error where I come from. This is another example of what happens when RN's are rushing and trying to do too many things at once. Not saying techs are the answer, but we are kidding ourselves if we think RN's are doing it right all the time.
  2. by   monkijr
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by LIZZIE57
    [B]I WOULD NEVER BEGRUDGE ANYONE WHO HAS PUT TIME INTO LEARNING AND TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CARE OF OTHERS. I HAVE WORKED WITH TECHS AND FOUND THAT IN THIS POSITION I SPEND MUCH OF MY TIME WORKING AS A TEAM, RATHER THAN JUST HANDING OVER THE CART AND NOT CHECKING IN ONCE IN A WHILE. MY WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE STAFFING SHORTAGE IS TO WORK TOGETHER AND LET EACH MEMBER KNOW YOUR EXPECTATIONS, WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO DO AND WHAT MUST BE ACCOMPLISHED! THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE PATIENT AND I FIND THAT "BEDSIDE LEADERSHIP" SEEMS TO WORK THE BEST IN A LTC SETTING. THIS MAY SOUND IDALISTIC, BUT IT SEEMS TO KEEP STAFF FOCUSED AND PRODUCTIVE.


    I USUALLY MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IF A CMA WILL BE DOING MEDS THAT I AS THE "CHARGE NURSE" WILL NOT BE HELD SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR A MISTAKE OR SIDE EFFECT. THIS CAN BE CLARIFIED BY DOCUMENTATION THAT THE NURSE CAN PRESENT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OR DIRECTOR.

    any comments??????
  3. by   Dakasha
    Where I worked before, as a Asst. Community Nurse, I dispensed meds, because I did it when I was training in the hospital under supervision, but when I went out in the Community to work I dispensed meds for years, I was restricted from administering certain meds though, I got accustomed to that;and what I didn't understand I would refer to my drug reference bookwhich we always kept updated in the clinics, and what I did n't understand I would ask the pharmacist. That is how I handle that situation. The CNA's just need the right training and they would be able to do it.
  4. by   Youda
    I USUALLY MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IF A CMA WILL BE DOING MEDS THAT I AS THE "CHARGE NURSE" WILL NOT BE HELD SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR A MISTAKE OR SIDE EFFECT. THIS CAN BE CLARIFIED BY DOCUMENTATION THAT THE NURSE CAN PRESENT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OR DIRECTOR.

    any comments??????
    Unfortunately, it isn't up to you or your administrator who is responsible. Most Boards of Nursing make it very clear who is responsible, and it's you. Check with your State BON to be sure. But, I don't think a letter or statement protects you in the least little bit. In fact, in a court of law, such a statement could be used against you to mean that you knowingly allowing a situation to exist that you felt was dangerous, but accepted the assignment anyway. Again, I'd call your State BON for advice about this before you feel too secure.:stone
  5. by   Teshiee
    Oldgirl

    You are right I am sure RN's aren't perfect some bad habits may be picked up along the way but it is his/her license that they may be putting in jepordy. But behind some unlicensed individual I think not!!!!!!!!!!! Accountability! I have worked in LTC and I know a charge nurse is doing many things but if an aide is passing a med he/she didn't follow through and inadvertently harmed a patient they are going to go after that nurse. So screw that mess! I am suprised BRN is even going for that.
  6. by   CaliNurse
    Originally posted by ADONDonnaRN
    In response to the many negative views on the subject of "techs" or what ever your particular location refers to them as... I myself am an RN, that works as an ADON in a LTC facility. I also am a part time instructor for the local college. I teach the Certified Medication Aide class, along with the assistance of an RPh. This is a non-credit course, however, there are educational and vocational requirements that have to be met, in order for a person to participate in the course. I won't take up space deliniating these, however, suffice it to say that in speaking for our program only, it is NOT a walk in the park! Our cirriculum includes drugs, drug laws and body systems emphasizing the effects of drugs on each one, etc.

    This makes me very curious.... what state do you teach this program in ADONDonnaRN?
    How long is the program? I live in California and I haven't heard of this title. I have to admit it does scare me. I seen staff that have passed meds for years and the errors they make just cut me to the floor! I wonder what the med error rate is in the states that use these positions.

    I hope that the staff that hold these positions don't stop there and continue on in nursing and get a license.

    Cali
  7. by   Susiesblues
    Who ever thought of that? I have worked to long and hard to even see this! I would never let anyone unlicensed pass meds on my license. It is far to important to me. It is my livelihood and I would not let it be jeopardized. For all of you who are working in facilities that allow aides to pass meds, you might want to think twice about your license. I think that the aides have their place and thank heavens for them but pass meds....NO.
  8. by   oldgirl
    Tshe-I agree completely. Only thing I was trying to point out was that the nutso pace of many floors these days is making bad habits easy to pick up. And yes, if I mess up, I answer to that-but meds under my license by someone else-no thank you.
  9. by   Teshiee
    Old girl I understand that is true the errors I see I just shake my head. Our license is ours alone why should we be held liable for someones' potential error? Crazy!!!!!!!
  10. by   Youda
    Originally posted by CaliNurse
    I wonder what the med error rate is in the states that use these positions.

    Cali
    That would be an interesting thing to find out. I think. I doubt that any data would be reliable, though, since medication errors at a LTC would require "self-reporting" to an agency, study or group. There is, obviously, motivation not to report such things. LTCs are usually not "mandatory reporters" to the state BONs, so many errors, if dealt with at all, are done in employee "counseling" sessions and filed away in a personnel file (assuming there isn't any actual harm to the patient). Acute care settings are more strict with errors. But, yes, some hard data would be a good indicator.
  11. by   Momto3RN
    I agree with venting our feelings/frustrations as a very human way of coping. I'd much rather do it here than in front of my patients!!!!
    One of my main motivations for logging on to this site is to VENT!!

    That said, I've seen many solutions so far that could help with this problem. As many of us have different circumstances, obviously just one solution will not do.

    As for me, I do the best for my patients with the resources I have available. At my SNF, the nurses pass all meds and I prefer it that way. I'll be responsible for my own ADPIEs, thank you!
  12. by   jtfreel
    There is a major hospital (medical center) in Petersburg, VA who has trained individuals (not necessarily CNA's) to pass medications on acute inpatients. This includes IV piggy backs, changing IV's, adminsitering IM injections including controlled substances, administer insulin and all scheduled medications.

    This hospital is JCAHO accredited, licensed by the state and the practice has been passed by the Board of Health Professions by the state of Virginia.
  13. by   CaliNurse
    I think we would all be better off with staff who could help us with all the different directions that we get pulled in. If they just simply put more CNA's on the floor it would help. They wouldn't even have to pass meds. Just do care. We are all part of the same team. We can't get by without each other. I know my hardest days are when I am being called to help reposition someone who I could do myself. After 12 hours of work the CNA's get to walk out the door. They can not help me with my charting. I can't come back the next day and chart. I can't take the charting home. If they put more staff on the floor then they could help each other and be on the call light patrol that also seems to distract me from how I have attempted to plan my shift.

    And Yes, this is a great place to vent. When I speak to others they never really understand what it like to be out there.

    I don't know why in nursing we seem to have this idea that we are all working as a team. We are the first to separate the day shift from the evening shift from the night shift. We are always blaming the other shift or claiming that we do more work then them. We will separate ourselves by title. I am the R.N., go find the LVN or CNA. I am the LVN, take that to the charge nurse or find the CNA. I am just the CNA, I don't do that, go get the charge nurse or the LVN.

    We eat our young. New nurses .... oh what a joy! We complain that they "don't know" anything. We don't have the compassion to give them 2 extra minutes to reinforce their self esteem. When they make an error its the end of the earth... like we have never made an error.

    I am lucky. The unit I am on now has a great director. She is extremely fair. We all know that we are in a stressful profession. The easiest part of our day is our drive to work. I believe in treating others all the way down to the housekeeping crew just as I would like to be treated.

    I did get a little off the topic, I guess it was my time to vent.

    I am with the majority with this one. CNA's or anyother non licensed person should not give meds. I don't believe that 3 months is long enough to learn the wisdom that you need to pass meds. My opinion.

    Cali

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