Circumcision Debate - page 9

Hi all. Our HealthGate topic of the week is a debate about circumcision. Is it a minor operation, (endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatrics) that improves cleanliness and that a baby doesn't... Read More

  1. by   JNJ
    I'm a European woman; babies are not routinely circumcized in Europe unless there is a religious reason (Jewish or Muslim usually).

    As a cultural note - men with circumcisions look deformed to me - I definitely see it as genital mutilation (and I have seen and worked with various forms of female mutilation).

    As for all the "hygiene" posts - the European health care systems are not exactly overwhelmed by caring for infections of this area; if they were, the "benefits" of this surgical procedure would be obvious, well researched and more appropriate methods of performing the procedure would have been found.

    I have cared for a newborn who died from a slow bleeding circ.

    I have also listened to poor mothers, trying to afford to get their infant boys circumcized (so that not being circumcized does not get equated with poverty which is another issue related to discharge time after birth and Medicaid.)

    Just food for your thoughts, I hope.
  2. by   Vsummer1
    This thread started in 2001 with the following post by:
    steve brock
    Guest
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: sausalito, ca, us
    Posts: 6

    07-18-2001 05:54 PM

    "Circumcision Debate Post #1

    Hi all. Our HealthGate topic of the week is a debate about circumcision. Is it a minor operation, (endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatrics) that improves cleanliness and that a baby doesn't feel or an unethical mutilation, with no medical basis, that has long-lasting effects"

    So, I presume that the information in this statement as the very FIRST POST on the position on the American Pediatrics Association has never been challenged. Note that at that time the Task Force had made its conclusion AND THIS IS ERRONEOUS INFORMATION, 3 years out of date at the start of this thread and now it comes up two more years later? The thread starter was a guest with exactly 6 posts, period. Can we say TROLL?

    In looking this up in my Maternity Nursing, Lowdermilk & Perry 6th ed, copyright 2003, page 498:

    "The American Academy of Pediatrics Task Force on Circumcision (1998) noted that, although there is scientific evidence of potential medical benefits of circumcision, the data are not sufficient to recommend routine circumcision. The Task Force further recommended that is circumcision is performed, analgesia should be used.:

    The policy and procedure for our PP unit (where I am currently doing clinicals) is thus:

    Instructions To Mother, Infant Care:

    "Circumcision
    Circumcision is no longer done routinely. The American Pediatric Association, after conducting several studies and interpreting the data, has stated that for most male children circumcision is an unnecessary surgery. You should discuss the pros and cons of circumcision with your pediatrition before making a decision.

    Circumcision is no longer done in the hospital. It will be done at the pediatrician's office; so you should discuss this with your pediatrician before you leave the hospital or call the office/clinic for an appointment right after you go home."
  3. by   Tenesma
    a few points

    1) the academy of pediatrics no longer endorses circumcisions

    2) there is NO difference in infection rate whatsoever - primarily because the foreskin produces smegma which has both anti-microbial and anti-viral propertis

    3) the only thing medical evidence to support circumcision is that you decrease your risk for penile cancer - but the same philosophy applies to breasts (if you have a mastectomy you decrease your risk for breast cancer).

    4) with every surgery there are surgical complications that can arise: including surgical wound infection which led to a penectomy (that's right - the penis gets chopped off), scarring and disfigurement that leads to painful intercourse... etc...

    Most of the European countries do no provide circumcision...
  4. by   Q.
    To circumsize or not to circumsize:

    Parent's Choice.. End of story.
  5. by   Vsummer1
    Originally posted by Tenesma
    a few points

    1) the academy of pediatrics no longer endorses circumcisions

    2) there is NO difference in infection rate whatsoever - primarily because the foreskin produces smegma which has both anti-microbial and anti-viral propertis

    3) the only thing medical evidence to support circumcision is that you decrease your risk for penile cancer - but the same philosophy applies to breasts (if you have a mastectomy you decrease your risk for breast cancer).

    4) with every surgery there are surgical complications that can arise: including surgical wound infection which led to a penectomy (that's right - the penis gets chopped off), scarring and disfigurement that leads to painful intercourse... etc...

    Most of the European countries do no provide circumcision...
    In response to your points, 1 & 2, I will say it once again, note that there IS scientific evidence of potential medicial benefits but not sufficient to recommend routine circumcision. I have provided my references on this, not opinion.

    "The American Academy of Pediatrics Task Force on Circumcision (1998) noted that, although there is scientific evidence of potential medical benefits of circumcision, the data are not sufficient to recommend routine circumcision. The Task Force further recommended that is circumcision is performed, analgesia should be used."
    Maternity Nursing, Lowdermilk & Perry 6th ed, copyright 2003, page 498:
  6. by   Vsummer1
    Originally posted by Susy K
    To circumsize or not to circumsize:

    Parent's Choice.. End of story.
    I agree. It is a cultural thing and both my boys had it done. Thier father had it done. In fact, I haven't met a penis yet that wasn't though I expect to soon in clinicals In my previous posts, I was merely presenting the facts of it, since the initial poster was just wrong with his information.
  7. by   Q.
    Oh Val, my post wasn't directed to you at all! Just my opinion on something that I think shouldn't even really be a debate but between parents.
  8. by   bossynurse
    I totally think circumcision is the way to go. I had my son done. I personally think that it makes a prettier "package" no pun intended. Not that the penis is an attractive thing. I have seen no infections with pt that have been circumcized yet I have seen many with uncirced males. I had a gastric bypass pt who wasnt done. Do we all know what happens to male genitalia when the person is obese? (for Heather and other OB nurses-- It disappears, kinda sucks itself into the belly) This man had a nasty infection and I had to teach his MOM how to apply antibiotic ointment qid when he was discharged. Urology was consulted during surgery to place the foley. But we all have are opinions.
  9. by   RNonsense
    Anybody know the stats on adult circ's? Our OR slate printed up every morning at 6am and there seemed to be alot of them. We are just one hospital that isn't even a GU specialty...
  10. by   sjoe
    shady writes: "Sjoe, I am assuming you are anti-circumscision??? "

    Not when there is some valid medical reason for it.

    I am for each person having maximum authority over and control of and responsibility for his/her own body.

    I am not for parents making cosmetic surgical decisions such as this for their own reasons, which include: social conformity, personal distaste for the appearance of the genitals of the "opposite" sex, an exercise of the legal power and control they have over another individual (particularly, it seems, when this person is of the "opposite" sex), etc. The inherent parental hostility/sadism in this is umistakable. We are not talking about repairing a deformity here, but creating one.

    Similarly I am not for parents having their infants or children scarified (for tribal identity), tattooed (to ward off evil, etc.), or otherwise mutilated (as in some poverty-ridden countries, in order to increase revenues from begging) for similar reasons.

    Yes, I am aware that all the above procedures are performed, at times, for "religious" or spiritualist reasons, but again, I would not and do not support this being done, unless and until the child is old enough to competently make the decision for him/herself.

    Do I spend my time organizing, writing letters, penning books, going on speaking tours, etc. to explain my views? Is this a major, or even significant, part of my life? Nope.
    Last edit by sjoe on Mar 31, '03
  11. by   ShandyLynnRN
    Sjoe, I was joking.
  12. by   GraceyB
    I dated a man that was not circumsized and it was disgusting. Always had that urine smell and the feel was not the same. I have to tell you that my boys (if I ever have any) will be circumsized. All the men in my family have had it done and my boys will have it done as well.
  13. by   Kaylesh
    Okay.. I have to jump in and give my two pence worth...
    I am a american nurse that has been living and well loving here in Scotland since 1999...
    I have been with both circ and uncirc men.. I haven't noticed any unusual odour with either.. Only men that aren't good with their hygeine will have odour such as urine smell..and i've smelt that with both intact and non intact men.
    GraceyB you certainly are entitled to your opinion but mine is ....
    Its up to the individual.. i'd never have any child of mine automatically circumcised.. there'd have to be a good medical reason..
    Just my opinion..
    Kay(Kaylesh)
    Canna resist a good debate :-)

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Circumcision Debate