Circumcision Debate - page 7

Hi all. Our HealthGate topic of the week is a debate about circumcision. Is it a minor operation, (endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatrics) that improves cleanliness and that a baby doesn't... Read More

  1. by   Tim-GNP
    All I can say is you would have your answer if you ever tried to reduce a phimosis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT a pleasant task for the nurse or patient.
  2. by   askater11
    I'm a cardiac nurse, but I had a 59 y/o patient yesterday that needed a circumcision. The gentleman origionally came into the hospital for the circumcision but, due to pre-op tests that he had stenosised arteries.

    Anyway, the patients foreskin was swollen and constricting blood flow. I was wondering if anyone had a patient that needed a circumcision as an adult? How painful the circumcision as an adult compared to as a child?

    By the way, both of my son's were circ'd....the Dr. used local anesthetic....

    Just curious.
  3. by   jamistlc
    Greetings All,

    I thought as we are community leaders and educators that we should take a stand on some issues, this is one of them! Male circumcision and female circumcision (fGM) need to be abolished as standard practices here and abroad. Even though a Doula in theory does not have issues with traditional birth and rites of passages, this has to be the exception as it has a medical foundation that supports this practice to end.

    I am talking specifically about (fGM) as presented in this excerpt of an article referenced below. In addition the American Academy of Pediatric Physicians says that male circumcision as no medical base in fact. Both are archaic practices that the newborn or child has to endure for social and parental demands as a norm.
    http://www.feminist.com/resources/ar.../inter/fgm.htm



    The Universal Childbirth Picture Book/CBPB - with Additions to prevent Excision and Infibulation were developed in support of the WHO seminar recommendations by Women's International Network. The CBPBs in English, French and Arabic are distributed all over Africa. Recently a Somali translation was published. More than 70,000 of these graphic teaching materials have been distributed in Africa

    Women's International Network is distributing free CBPBs to local Community and Women's Groups, Clinics, Midwifery Schools and Training Programs all over Africa to all who are willing to work for the eradication of FGM. This successful grass roots program, which is regularly reported in WIN NEWS, urgently needs sponsors and support. Contributions to WIN are tax-deductible in the USA.

    WIN NEWS/Fran P. Hosken, editor, 187 Grant St., Lexington, MA 02420-2126, USA. Tel: (781) 862-9431, E-mail winnews@igc.org


    Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)
    by Fran P. Hosken


    "150 MILLION GIRLS AND WOMEN MUTILATED IN AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST

    The number of mutilated women and girls in Africa and the Middle East is increasing steadily due to population growth, according to the latest estimates published by WIN NEWS. But internationally financed population, health and safe motherhood programs ignore Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and have failed to implement effective preventive education.

    The mutilation most often performed is Clitoridectomy or Excision - cutting off, without anesthetic, the clitoris and most of the external genitalia. This is practiced in a broad area from the Red Sea to the Atlantic Coast. The most dangerous operation, Infibulation or Pharaonic Circumcision, is customary in Sudan, Somalia, Northern Kenya, parts of Ethiopia and all along the Red Sea Coasts as well as in West Africa in parts of Mali and adjoining areas. After the clitoris is excised and all external genitalia are carved away, the bleeding raw edges of the large lips are held together by thorns or other fastening devices - until a scar forms to close the entrance to the vagina. The legs of the little girl are tied together for several weeks until the wound heals; a tiny opening is created by inserting a splinter of wood - to allow urination. Thus virginity - which is considered especially important by Moslem men - can be proven before the bride price is paid to the father.

    These dangerous operations result in permanent health damage: hemorrhage and shock, which may be fatal; many infections including tetanus, scarring which obstructs normal childbirth and may result in death of both mother and baby; infertility due to infections....."

    This is a medical procedure that has no research based rationale for it to occur anymore. It is a medical tradition that I think needs to stop being practiced on both genders and those who can not defend themselves from this insult!


    Peace,
    Have a Blessed Day,
    James (Jami) Ullman, LPN, Doula


    "During Childbirth pain is recognized as physiological and not pathological and therefore pain may not be a bad thing." - unknown

    "I am grateful to be connected to my inner sense of the 'rightness' of natural homebirth, but I find it totally bizarre that I have to become a modern-day Joan of Arc to accomplish that goal."
    - Piper Allan Severns
    Last edit by jamistlc on Aug 28, '01
  4. by   Q.
    Just a slight suggestion for you gentlemen: perhaps you aught to try, just maybe, not using any type of enhancing "devices" or slathering liquids all over your penises; you might be pleasantly surprised as your partner may enjoy you "as is."
    Speaking as a woman who is cursed with small anatomy, bigger and longer is not necessarily better.
  5. by   Russ Dowling
    It is my humble opinion that ANY non-consensual alteration of human genitalia that is done for any other reason than some necessary form of medical treatment is mutilation. I applaud the AAPP's stance on circumcision.
  6. by   Russ Dowling
    Suzy, I think if you told men to put Peanut Butter on their penises, Jelly in their hair, and to play the Sousaphone during sex to make it better, they'd break their necks to do it!
  7. by   kimtab
    I agree Jami.

    There is ABSOLUTELY a basis of comparison for FGM and Male circ. Beside the fact that the term Circumcision only descibes clitoridectomy and not infibulation, FGM isn't called Female Circ anymore I believe because we feel a need to put some distance between the procedure our culture condones, and one which we consider barbaric.

    Both practices are performed for cultural reasons only. Both practices have been proven to have no medical necessity.

    Sure, RIC in this country is generally performed under safe sterile conditions. Would FGM be okay if Doctors Without Borders set up sterile clinics where the populace could bring their daughters to have their clitoris' removed? If clitoridectomy were to start being offered routinely at birth by our nations hospitals would we all start lining up with our newborn daughters? No, we would be appalled and horrified at even the suggestion. Why aren't we appalled and horrified that our sons are subjected to this?

    Yes, removal of the clitoris probably does have more sexual consequences than removal of the foreskin. But you can't deny that the foreskin must be sexually sensitive tissue, that merely by virtue of it's location it must have some sort of sexual function. Yes, I have no doubt that that FGM results in many more complications than RIC. But all you have to do is a search on the net for "circumcision complications" to see some very disturbing pictures of what can go wrong with RIC when it does go wrong.

    You can't ask the babies of course (well, you can ask- but they ain't gonna answer) but I really feel with a great degree of certainty that if they could make the choice for themselves, there wouldn't be any circumcisions going on at all in this country.

    Kim
  8. by   Q.
    For the record, while I myself do not agree with the practice of female circumcision in other countries, I also do not believe it is my place to push my western belief or practices on other cultures. Our way is not necessarily the better way.
  9. by   Q.
    Originally posted by Russ Dowling
    Suzy, I think if you told men to put Peanut Butter on their penises, Jelly in their hair, and to play the Sousaphone during sex to make it better, they'd break their necks to do it!
    Hmmm..let's test this theory.........

  10. by   kennedyj
    Me personally I like to decorate myself in whip cream and sprinkle pop rocks over the top of the penis. If she accidentally bites then a pop rock will go off.


    J
  11. by   kennedyj
    Originally posted by wildtime88

    This leads to another question for the debate at hand. Is there any difference in sexual satisfaction on the part of females between circ'd and uncirc'd males?

    Thats it!!!! I have been searching for so long for a good thesis topic /Grant proposal. I will do a double blind study on sexual satisfaction between circ'd (experimental group #1) vs uncirc'd (experimental group #2) penis' and dependant variable (the penetrated vagina). The field work could be fun. Should clinical trials test both controls on the DV at the same time or at different times

    sorry if this offended anyone. I have been ROlling on the floor this whole discussion.-
    J
  12. by   kennedyj
    Im there!!
  13. by   night owl

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Circumcision Debate