Circumcision Debate - page 6

Hi all. Our HealthGate topic of the week is a debate about circumcision. Is it a minor operation, (endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatrics) that improves cleanliness and that a baby doesn't... Read More

  1. by   Q.
    JenniferJ-

    I "started" it? Because I didn't agree with you and I agreed with Tracy and her comments??? Oh......my.......god.


    You are not participating in a debate anymore Jennifer. You are purposely looking for attacks or comments on your character when really what is going on is someone is merely challenging you and your beliefs or statements. Tracy never called you ugly, stupid, fat, naive, worthless, unsafe, your mamma wears combat boots - nothing like that. Tracy used intelligence and objectivity to respond to your pretty strong opinions. I agreed with her. That does not mean that I was insulting you and that does not mean that Tracy was insulting you either. What that means Jennifer, is that we simply don't agree with you!

    You also cannot accept Tracy's apology graciously and like a professional with differing opinions. What a truly sad state indeed.
  2. by   LauraRN0501
    When my son was born I didn't have him circed. I was living in my parents house and my mother was adamantly against it. When he was about two months old, his foreskin popped back all on his own. I did not force it, was actually just changing his diaper and cleaning him and POP it went! From that time on, he had constant problems. I was religious about bathing and keeping him clean, and it didn't make any difference. He had infections and pain almost all the time. I remember once when he was a baby, I was trying to clean him and it hurt him so badly he was shaking all over. At a young age he knew how to clean himself properly, although I always supervised. I can't tell you how many times he had to soak in a warm tub to relieve the pain.

    When he was five and still had not outgrown it (and I was a little more able to think for myself) I took him to a urologist. Apparently when the foreskin popped back, there were some adhesions which left little pockets that easily became infected no matter how well we cleaned. So, at the end of kindergarten, my son was circumcised on an outpatient basis. This was on a Friday. The doc said he would be able to go back to school the following Monday. He did not go back to school for two weeks. He was so swollen and painful and his urethra would scab over and when he had to pee it hurt because he couldn't and then the force of his urine would break the scab. He would be screaming and bleeding and peeing and I would be hysterical. He couldn't pee without taking a warm bath first to loosen the scab. Talk about mutilation! This was one of the most traumatic times in his life, not to mention mine. We both still remember it vividly. That being said, after a long horrible recovery, he has had no problems since.

    Because of my experience, if I ever have another child and it is a boy, that child will be circumcised the second he is born! LOL Not that early, but you get the picture. I would never wish what we went through on another child. I certainly am aware that not every child goes through what we went through, but no way in hell am I taking the chance!!

    Laura
  3. by   nurs4kids
    Susy,
    I bet you also got a nasty little email telling you what a pathetic person you are!!! LOL Now sistah, put down the knife

    Tracy
  4. by   Brenda Braun
    I remember working in the emergency room one night and having a five year old child come in crying and unable to walk due to a circumcision (his foreskin had become infected). To me, it broke my heart to see it and fearful that my son would ever have to go through the same, I had him cicumcised. I do think that now, after 10 years that I would reconsider that decision based on the fact that I believe female genital mutilation is very close to the same thing. I do see that many may get it done "to look like daddy" or for religious reasons. It is ultimately a very personal decision. BB
  5. by   kimtab
    About the hypersensitivity to pain thing: I did read a study that concluded that Male infants who were circ'ed showed heightened pain response to vaccinations at subsequent well-baby visits than did male infants who were intact. If I wasn't so lazy I would find the link, sorry.

    As a new mother in the hospital I had not given a single thought to circ'ing my baby until my OB asked me if I wanted her to. It was the wrong time to have make that decision I'll tell you. I was hesitant, but in my postpartum haze, I said yes- thinking, "well, I want him to fit in with everyone else". Had I never been asked? It never would have been done. Had I had the presence of mind to ask at least a few questions about the whole thing? It never would have been done. The only thing I got to read was the consent form. I have no idea what it said. I don't even know if anesthesia was used. I feel guilty for making what I consider to be the wrong decision without even asking a single question. I also feel anger at a healthcare system that allowed me to make that decision without making any attempt to educate me about the procedure. If you are a nurse who is involved with the patients who are making this decision, I hope you are offering information. If they aren't interested, fine, but please offer. Perhaps my nurses thought it was none of their business, but I do wish one of them had started a discussion with me about circumcision.

    I don't feel that the increased risk of UTI's or Penile cancer justifies removal of the foreskin. Neither is common. Girls get UTI's too, and they don't have foreskins. And cleanliness? While it may be true that an adult male's circumcised penis is more easily maintained, this is not necessarily true of the infant's circ'ed penis. Circ'ed males collect crud beneath the corona, if the circ is a "long" one then the remaining foreskin must be retracted and meticulously cleaned. Difficult on a wriggling infant. My son also has recurring adhesions, this is very common according to my Ped, who likes to forcefully separate these at every well-baby visit (I put a stop to that this last time though.) Causing more pain and the risk of infection and scarring! Lovely, eh? No one told me anything but to keep the vaseline gauze on it for a week after I left the hospital. No one told me about adhesions or how to prevent them.

    Ah, If I knew then what I know now. Everybody else knows what I know now though My son came out perfect and exactly as nature intended him. Who was I to decide that a part of his body was unnecessary and should be removed? If I have another son, I will not circ.

    Kim
  6. by   mcl4
    [
    As a new mother in the hospital I had not given a single thought to circ'ing my baby until my OB asked me if I wanted her to. It was the wrong time to have make that decision I'll tell you. I was hesitant, but in my postpartum haze, I said yes- thinking, "well, I want him to fit in with everyone else". Had I never been asked? It never would have been done. Had I had the presence of mind to ask at least a few questions about the whole thing? It never would have been done. The only thing I got to read was the consent form. I have no idea what it said. I don't even know if anesthesia was used. I feel guilty for making what I consider to be the wrong decision without even asking a single question. I also feel anger at a healthcare system that allowed me to make that decision without making any attempt to educate me about the procedure. If you are a nurse who is involved with the patients who are making this decision, I hope you are offering information. If they aren't interested, fine, but please offer. Perhaps my nurses thought it was none of their business, but I do wish one of them had started a discussion with me about circumcision.



    I believe you made some valid points here. I wish I had taken more time to educate myself and my husband before signing consents for my three sons to be circ. However, because of the short hospital stay, I think the education should be done prior to delivery or during the prenatal visits.
  7. by   kennedyj
    Originally posted by lalaxton
    I did not have my son circumsized. Neither my father nor my 3 brothers were either and no one had any problems. My husband, however was circ. at 12 years old. I see no need for my son to look like his dad. If I had to have a mastectomy at an early age should I think my daughter should have one to look like me??

    My father always said, teach your child to keep himself clean and he will have no problems with infections. Besides there is growing evidence that men are more sexually sensitive if they have not been circumsized. Any comments from the guys out there?

    I was mutilated by my parents but have probably considered myself avereage in the sex arena. One day I saw a bottle of viscous lidocaine at a friends house. I took some home and tried it at the next wild occasion. Boy I tell ya it works great. Put some on inside a condom about 10 minutes and during foreplay and wow when the pipe is being laid down you can see smoke a flyin without any fear of preemies!
    Hypersensitive or not Lido Viscous style cures all.
    J
  8. by   Q.
    Originally posted by Russ Dowling
    What about the practice among some African tribes of circumcising girls by removing part or all of the clitoris? Is that mutilation? It's part of their initiation into adulthood.
    This practice among African tribes, as I have stated in another post, is done purely for humiliating purposes; to deprive the woman of any sexual enjoyment. These females "circs" are done in public, on the ground, with a dirty knife. Quite the different practice compared to here, where in the United States we are removing a piece of skin, not the entire sex organ, and it's done under safe, sterile technique, with the benefit of reviewing the current literature on pain control for neonates. Also, circs are optional here; in Africa they are forced. I don't see any comparison.
  9. by   BrandyBSN
    LOL, you actually DO THAT? Dear God, i thought you were joking.
  10. by   Q.
    Ok you two. I have quite the potty mouth and mind but for the life of me I cannot tell what in the world you are talking about. WHY would you be putting lidocaine inside a condom? Umm like what is the point???
    And...."laying a round of pipe"???????
    Cute, very cute.
  11. by   Q.
    I suppose it would prevent "premature" ejaculation seeing as you can't feel a damn thing with lidocaine slathered all over your "member!"

    I didn't realize preemies was such a problem for your gentlemen.
  12. by   fergus51
    I completely agree with you Susy K that FGM is horrific, but I have to defend the women who put their daughters through this because they aren't doing it to humiliate. They are doing it to ensure their daughter stays a virgin in order to preserve her reputation so she'll be able to get a husband. It's absolutely sick and I don't think it is the same as circumcision in any sense either. That's why activists stopped calling it female circumcision and started calling it female genital mutilation. Totally different topic. The only question that can relate the 2 together is: Would you allow FGM if it was done in a sterile hospital room like you allow circs? I think it's a pointless comparison.
  13. by   kennedyj
    Haven't had too much trouble being limp for a day. But after using lido she is usually too sore the next few days anyway. It is not something you use all the time. Its just an impression builder. Just a toy in the black bag 'a tricks. A friend of mine would put on a penis and girth extension in the darkwhen he was with a new girl so she couldnt see what he was doing. But I think he just wanted to hurt 'em
    I am a nice guy.


    Wildtime88
    - I would be afraid of buying preloaded ones- wouldn't it make the woman numb too.


    BrandyBSN
    - you are a student so it is OK that you don't know about this. You are in the phase of learning new things. Explore and be explored




    FMG- is barbaric. I've read they usually leave a vaginal hole the size of a wooden match head. Just big enough to pee out of. The woman will no longer have orgasms or feel what is normally felt. They say that sex is for bearing children and not for pleasure. I have heard that the first sex encounter is excrusiatingly painful.
    Last edit by kennedyj on Aug 27, '01

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Circumcision Debate