BSN vs. ADN - page 7

I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?... Read More

  1. by   justanurse
    Then what are we arguing about. We are all educated, we all passed the test and I try my best to be respectful of others. I didn't deliberately misunderstand, we're talking about ADN & BSN nurses on this topic and who should make more money. Lets get our facilities to go for those clinical ladders, so that we all that do patient care can have a piece of the pie, whether we want to be ADN, BSN, or have certifications. I have no problem with that, then everyone has an opportunity to earn an extra incentive, and I don't have to return for my BSN, which I don't really want. And, we also stop the arguing about who is just as good as each other. We've all been trained to think above the "monkey" concept, we are all trained to think ahead, think of our patients, while thinking of the big picture. I'm all for not arguing, it makes me feel so crappy. I'm tired enough with getting back to work. There's enough these days that can make you feel that way.

    You all have a safe weekend, HAPPY SUMMER!!!
  2. by   egmillard
    SO WHAT DO DIPLOMA NURSES MAKE. PROBABLY LESS THAN DEGREE NURSES. A NURSE IS A NURSE, IF THEY DO THE SAME JOB, THEN THEY SHOULD BE PAID THE SAME. IF THEY HAVE MORE REPOSNSIBILITY AND EXPERIENCE, THEN THE SALARY SHOULD REFLECT THAT.
  3. by   lls
    I work in IN and we do get more money for BSN but at this time not for the MS. We belong to ISTA (union). Have any of you taken the national certification for school nursing?
  4. by   Mijourney
    Hi,
    Goldilocksrn, thanks for your comment about my last post. I was concerned, however, about your comment regarding ADNs and monkeys, but you cleared that up.
    As a old school three year diploma nurse with a BSN, I feel that BSN nurses should get paid more than nurses from two or three year programs whether it's for the same job or not. However, neither employers or physicians take educational background in consideration when it comes to RNs unless it is specifically related to pay. In my area, for instance, job postings preferring a BSN nurse will accept an ADN nurse depending on experience. The pay scale, unfairly in my opinion, will start lower for a position preferring a BSN than for a job posting requiring a BSN. The same is true for job postings preferring a MSN but accepting BSN applicants. Lowering the pay scale is unfair in my mind, because as many posters have written, the same job is going to be requested of both the BSN and ADN nurse. That's one of my main arguments for establishing BSN as entry level. Nurses from all backgrounds have a lot to offer and most that I know of deserve more pay in general. But employers need to be stopped from exploiting our educational backgrounds with varying the pay scale as they do with certain positions. Clinical ladders can work if administered objectively and not subjectively as many supervisors tend to do.
  5. by   lita1857
    Actually in 22yrs of nursing, as an RN from 3yr diploma program/ Assoc. degree they were ahead of their time in '75 I have found certification/clinical ladders/performance appraisals to be the way I increased my hourly wage(30/hr).Almost mathmatically works out to $9 base(where I started) plus $1 per year....I also don't forget I work 40hrs so I receive full benefit package of 14hrs of vacation per month(accrued every 2wks into imaginary bank) 40 hrs paid time off, 50% of my health care choice. I do support degrees, think it's the way to raise the salary for nurses to a repectable level.
  6. by   goldilocksrn
    I guess an answer is a long time coming.
  7. by   leia
    I see you must have a lot of problems in the states,in germany it is a little different.I went to school for three years (just like every other nurse)and after I passed the test I am a RN and I am able to work anywhere in Germany if I want I can get higher education like being an ICU Nurse that is an extra 2 years of school (have to do that next to the job),but the regular nurses get paid all the same and you get pay raises with the years you have,so I get paid more (almost 15 years in nursing) than a nurse fresh out of training.I don't have a problem with nurses with more responsibilities get paid more than me-what I have a problem with is nurses who having less work to do than me getting paid the same.I work on a Stroke Unit/Neuro.ICU and we have patients who needs a lot of help in everything(everybody who lifted a 200pd person before,know what I mean)and the nurses on station with less sick pt.get the same money.So I be thinking I should get paid for the work I do not just for my degree.A degree don't mean anythink if you do not work in a field where you use the knowledge in.
    leia
  8. by   ratchit
    Bit my tongue as long as I could... I'm a proud ADN who as a senior research paper (yes, we wrote 'em too!) compared my program to a world known and much respected program. We used the same textbooks, covering at least as many chapters (according to syllabus), had the same number of science and nursing class hours and MORE clinical hours than the BSN program. I worked my way through school and, even though I had my choice of a couple programs, chose the ADN so I would get out of school earlier. (All the better to appease the nasty student loan man. ) The classes I didn't take have NOTHING to do with my job as a staff nurse- my patients need my clinical judgement, compassion, and skill. Haven't had a single one yet ask me to debate Asian politics of the 1700's or economic influences on the Civil War... There is data (I wish I could quote the source- will find it...) showing ADN's and BSN's work at the same level within months of graduation. Another side: there are LPN's I would trust my grandmother with and MSN's I wouldn't trust alone with a dead rodent. The letters after your name mean so much less than your performance.

    There is nothing wrong with a higher education- I full well plan on going back to school. But I have no desire to be management or an NP- so I see no point in shelling out $30,000 to change my "A" to a "B". My colleagues respect me, my supervisors trust me, and my patients are comfortable knowing they have a damn good nurse who is on their side. If you want a BSN then God bless you- but please respect those of us who know just as much about being a staff nurse and were smart enough to save some money.

    Ratchit
  9. by   askater
    Nobody answered my question above. Oh well that's okay....it's just a thought.

  10. by   Mijourney
    Originally posted by askater:
    Nobody answered my question above. Oh well that's okay....it's just a thought.

    ---------------------------------------------
    Hi askater,
    I'm not sure of which post you're referring to. If it's the one about the A.D.N. expansion potential then I will respond that it would be difficult to expand an already intense two year program. But, I am expressing my opinion as a diploma nurse who also has a BSN. I know of schools that have both an ADN and BSN program whereby the person who obtains their associate's degree can continue their nursing education and financial support of that particular nursing school by enrolling in the school's BSN program. I personally feel that BSN programs should incorporate 3 years of clinical. In today's progressive health and medical care environment, I don't think that one can get too much exposure to patient care. Anyway, I think the issue of additional pay for education is falling on deaf ears in the upper echelons of decision-making. There is a nursing shortage here or on the horizon. Some experts predict 20 years of a severe nursing shortage. I have the upmost respect for any nurse who can competently and sanely practice nursing at any bedside.

  11. by   emmidee
    Originally posted by Angel Nurse:
    I think nurses who have the BS as opposed to just an AS should get payed more. Even If you have both nurses doing the same job, the BS nurse should be payed more. The BS nurse took the time and payed the money to receive that BS degree. A BS nurse has gained more knowledge through that education and he/she should be recognized for that.
    Excuse me? Did you say gain more knowledge? As a new grad RN, 6 months into the game, we have had two new grad BSNs to come into our ER that I have constantly had to coach on procedures, disease processes, etc. The only difference between the degrees is that BSNs get management lectures. And, I might add, letters are no guage of knowledge. I know some BSNs who have no common sense, and whether people know it or not, that stuff plays a big part in this field.
  12. by   emmidee
    Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
    I didn't go into a BSN program because I wanted more money. I did it to expand my mind. I think the more open your mind, the better person you are. I think paying people with more formal education more is a way of saying that their efforts to learn are recognized. It is sad that fellows nurses aren't willing to recognize a fellow RN's hard work. The public is going to continue to view us as task doers as long as we continue to view ourselves as task doers. Here we are arguing over who does what tasks and its not fair that a BSN makes more; if it makes you that upset, go get your BSN too. It will motivate others to pursue further learning.
    And that, in itself, is a close-minded statement. An open-minded person would have said that there are several way to open your mind..since when was two years of school a prerequisite to openmindedness? I know high school graduates who are probably more educated that some college grads. Half of all of us can't even spell looking at some of these posts. And if it took COLLEGE to help you expand your mind, then that, my friend, is sad. No harm intended, but people get so caught up in titles that you all forget where you came from in the first place. I know LPNs who run rings around some of our CCRNs. And this is no lie. So get over the obsession with "bettering yourselves" and just be a NURSE. It doesn't take a Bachelor's degree to be caring. Compassion and caring can't be taught by any professor.
  13. by   emmidee
    Originally posted by ratchit:
    Bit my tongue as long as I could... I'm a proud ADN who as a senior research paper (yes, we wrote 'em too!) compared my program to a world known and much respected program. We used the same textbooks, covering at least as many chapters (according to syllabus), had the same number of science and nursing class hours and MORE clinical hours than the BSN program. I worked my way through school and, even though I had my choice of a couple programs, chose the ADN so I would get out of school earlier. (All the better to appease the nasty student loan man. ) The classes I didn't take have NOTHING to do with my job as a staff nurse- my patients need my clinical judgement, compassion, and skill. Haven't had a single one yet ask me to debate Asian politics of the 1700's or economic influences on the Civil War... There is data (I wish I could quote the source- will find it...) showing ADN's and BSN's work at the same level within months of graduation. Another side: there are LPN's I would trust my grandmother with and MSN's I wouldn't trust alone with a dead rodent. The letters after your name mean so much less than your performance.

    There is nothing wrong with a higher education- I full well plan on going back to school. But I have no desire to be management or an NP- so I see no point in shelling out $30,000 to change my "A" to a "B". My colleagues respect me, my supervisors trust me, and my patients are comfortable knowing they have a damn good nurse who is on their side. If you want a BSN then God bless you- but please respect those of us who know just as much about being a staff nurse and were smart enough to save some money.

    Ratchit
    AMEN TO THAT.

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