BSN vs. ADN - page 3

I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?... Read More

  1. by   Palpitations
    Here's a different twist on it. I just recently obtained a Bachelor's in Health Science. I have two Associate Degrees, one in nursing, and one in general studies. At the time that I decided to go for the BHS, I was thinking that I needed to get out of nursing because it is just too stressful. I knew that certain jobs like the military and the public health agency in town requires a Bachelor's degree in order to work there. I, also, knew that the public health agency pays less money than most hospitals.

    My reasoning was not the pay, but to have better choices. I want to work M-F, 9-5, and *really* have paid holidays off (not use PTO). It takes a higher degree to get into less stressful job positions.
  2. by   tweetieRN
    Sorry, but I don't feel that there should be a pay difference for doing the same job. I also question the quality of the extra education. At least in our area, it takes 3 yrs, all three semesters, with heavy focus on health related subjects and clinical time for the ADN program. We have 2 BSN programs and 1 ADN program in our area, and as I understand it the ADN program has more clinical time. Plus the quality of clinical time is different - the ADN students take patients for their entire clinical time, and the BSN students pick and choose what they want to see. I've oriented both and the BSN students require more orientation time after graduation - because their focus in school wasn't neccessarily on the routine day to day tasks. We all take the same boards also.
    I have no problem with the BSN's making more money - if they have a greater level of responsibility.
    As a patient, I would not care at all if you're well versed in art history or not. I want you to truly know what you're doing.
    As far as LPN's go - in Iowa, they don't do IV's. They also don't do heart or lung assessments. Or give IV medications or call the doc for orders. At our hospital, each LPN must be directly supervised by an RN.
    I personally think there's room for each level of nursing. If a person wants to go into administration - go for that BSN. Also I've heard some talk over the years about using BSN's for case manager positions.
    If you really want to stay at the bedside - stay with your LPN or ADN.

    [This message has been edited by tweetieRN (edited June 06, 2000).]
  3. by   Palpitations
    I say that if you're a young nurse and if you have the time, go for the BSN. You'll have more options. You may not want to be a bedside nurse, you may not want to work in a hospital having the BSN will allow you to choose between working in a hospital or in some other environment. Sometimes, it's not about the money, it's about opportunity.


    Originally posted by tweetieRN:
    Sorry, but I don't feel that there should be a pay difference for doing the same job. I also question the quality of the extra education. At least in our area, it takes 3 yrs, all three semesters, with heavy focus on health related subjects and clinical time for the ADN program. We have 2 BSN programs and 1 ADN program in our area, and as I understand it the ADN program has more clinical time. Plus the quality of clinical time is different - the ADN students take patients for their entire clinical time, and the BSN students pick and choose what they want to see. I've oriented both and the BSN students require more orientation time after graduation - because their focus in school wasn't neccessarily on the routine day to day tasks. We all take the same boards also.
    I have no problem with the BSN's making more money - if they have a greater level of responsibility.
    As a patient, I would not care at all if you're well versed in art history or not. I want you to truly know what you're doing.
    As far as LPN's go - in Iowa, they don't do IV's. They also don't do heart or lung assessments. Or give IV medications or call the doc for orders. At our hospital, each LPN must be directly supervised by an RN.
    I personally think there's room for each level of nursing. If a person wants to go into administration - go for that BSN. Also I've heard some talk over the years about using BSN's for case manager positions.
    If you really want to stay at the bedside - stay with your LPN or ADN.

    [This message has been edited by tweetieRN (edited June 06, 2000).]
  4. by   NurseMom
    And the debate goes on.....
    I posted a couple of weeks ago about some of the LPN's and a DN/RN I work with are really great nurses, and they still are. Yesterday, I found out that a newly hired LPN at the hospital where I work makes 25 cents less an hour than I do..and I've been there THREE years!!The rationale is that she has had more years in the nursing profession than I have, but I figure that they're offering higher pay to get more staff.
    Oh yeah...where I work, LPN's can't do IV's either, but can do everything else an RN can. I just feel that we'll NEVER be paid what we're worth to the patients, no matter what our degree is. Can you tell I've had a burn out week???
    xoxoxo

    ------------------
    Laurie
    so many patients...
    so little time.....
  5. by   Toots
    Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
    I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?
    Our hospital gives pay differentials BSN and Masters prepared as well as a one-time bonus for attaining a certification. You don't have much of a prayer of doing anything more then staff nursing unless you have a minimum BSN...a Bachelors in another discipline doesn't qualify. So - increased pay and responsibility is an incentive for increased education and certification. We also can attend nursing classes and get an advanced degree for free so there is little excuse not to - except lack of time or initiative.

  6. by   jgnc
    Originally posted by ltm:
    all i would like to add is that there was a study done that stated that bsn and adn nurses perform at an identical level within 6 months. the adn/bsn thing should not be a debate in the nursing community. personally in my area both bsn and adn students go through the same amount of school. in my bsn program we were very skill oriented and we did not get to pick our patients based on what we wanted, but rather on what skills and disease processes we had not yet seen. there is not a skill that an adn student can do that i cannot which makes the point that a nurse is a nurse no matter which degree she/he possesses. i do believe that there needs to be one pathway that leads to obtaining a RN license. it would unify the profession, so that we could work together for things like ample compensation for what we do everyday, instead of debates like this which is not accomplishing anything. i emplore all of you to think about what we are in the medical profession, which is the largest group, thus we should have the power to change things in healthcare as a united front. finally i think all RNs should be paid the same whether they have a bsn or an adn until one pathway can be required to get a RN license. clearly LPNs should not be paid the same as RNs because we don't do the same job and there is less education involved in being an LPN.

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 10, 2000).]
    Just for the record - your statement "clearly LPNs should not be paid the same..." In MANY areas of nursing, they DO do the same job! Secondly, your whole point was that all RNs are equivalent so they should all be paid the same, yet there are differences in education. How do you justify your "less education" quote as it applies to LPNs? There IS a difference between RN levels of education!

  7. by   ltm
    sure lpns may do the same job, which is not so in my area, but they do not have the same education as an RN and that is why there is a pay difference and a difference in their scope of practice. All RNs perform the same tasks and that is why they should all be paid the same, regardless of their type of education. i am a bsn graduate, which i am very proud of. i don't have time to knock other peoples education level, because clearly that is their choice. i have the highest respect for lpns, as a matter of fact they are who i learned a lot from during my clinicals as a student, but they are not equivalent to RNs. they could not do assessments, give iv meds, nor hang blood products. in saying that i am not saying that they were not able, it is just not in their scope of practice. RNs have a larger scope of practice, which is common knowledge, just look at your state practice act. i am sure that many of us are able to do what some physicians do, but they sure aren't paying us to be doctors, because we didn't go to school for that. i still stand by my statement that all RNs should be paid the same since we do the same tasks.

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 10, 2000).]
  8. by   Palpitations
    Hi ltm all RN's don't do the same tasks. Some have highly specialized skills. Some have master's degrees and can diagnose and write scripts. Some are anesthetists. Some are occupational health nurses. Some are case managers. You better believe that these nurses are getting paid more money than the average RN.

    The higher your education in nursing the more likely you are to receive better pay and more diverse job offers.

    Originally posted by ltm:
    sure lpns may do the same job, which is not so in my area, but they do not have the same education as an RN and that is why there is a pay difference and a difference in their scope of practice. All RNs perform the same tasks and that is why they should all be paid the same, regardless of their type of education. i am a bsn graduate, which i am very proud of. i don't have time to knock other peoples education level, because clearly that is their choice. i have the highest respect for lpns, as a matter of fact they are who i learned a lot from during my clinicals as a student, but they are not equivalent to RNs. they could not do assessments, give iv meds, nor hang blood products. in saying that i am not saying that they were not able, it is just not in their scope of practice. RNs have a larger scope of practice, which is common knowledge, just look at your state practice act. i am sure that many of us are able to do what some physicians do, but they sure aren't paying us to be doctors, because we didn't go to school for that. i still stand by my statement that all RNs should be paid the same since we do the same tasks.

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 10, 2000).]
  9. by   ltm
    all i would like to add is that there was a study done that stated that bsn and adn nurses perform at an identical level within 6 months. the adn/bsn thing should not be a debate in the nursing community. personally in my area both bsn and adn students go through the same amount of school. in my bsn program we were very skill oriented and we did not get to pick our patients based on what we wanted, but rather on what skills and disease processes we had not yet seen. there is not a skill that an adn student can do that i cannot which makes the point that a nurse is a nurse no matter which degree she/he possesses. i do believe that there needs to be one pathway that leads to obtaining a RN license. it would unify the profession, so that we could work together for things like ample compensation for what we do everyday, instead of debates like this which is not accomplishing anything. i emplore all of you to think about what we are in the medical profession, which is the largest group, thus we should have the power to change things in healthcare as a united front. finally i think all RNs should be paid the same whether they have a bsn or an adn until one pathway can be required to get a RN license. clearly LPNs should not be paid the same as RNs because we don't do the same job and there is less education involved in being an LPN.

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 10, 2000).]
  10. by   AHarri66
    Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
    I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?
    I have to disagree. Whether one has a Diploma, an ADN, or a BSN, the duties are the same; we all take the same boards and thus have a comparable level of the required knowledge to practice. (I'm not talking advanced degrees/specialties here.) Until or unless the responsibilities differ among the levels of education, whether by regs or facility policy, the base pay should be equal. I fall in the middle category (ADN), and I don't expect to be paid more than the Diploma RNs I work with unless I have more responsibility, and I don't expect to be paid less than the BSNs I work with, unless they do. As far as LPNs are concerned, they may perform similar tasks, but they are limited by the various Practice Acts and are not allowed to do everything an RN can. (In my facility LPNs cannot care for central lines, for example.) In most cases, from a legal if not a practical standpoint, LPNs are under the supervision of RNs. That is where the difference in pay lies, not in level of education per se.
    I have worked with every 'flavor' of nurse, and have learned a great deal from most of them. I have found, however, that many Diploma RNs have greater clinical expertise than their college educated counterparts due to the fact that they have had greater immersion into the clinical setting. Theory is important, true, but nothing compares to practical experience, IMHO.

    Regards,
    Angela
  11. by   AHarri66
    Why is it in any other profession the person with a higher degree gets more money, but in Nursing...only those under a BSN feels it doesn't matter. I think that anyone who pursues a higher degree should be paid well for it. It's a matter of choices. I feel I should not be punished b/c someone did not choose to educate themselves higher. I am very proud that I am a BSN and am going back for more education. Those who complain so much about it should stop spending their time complaining and go back to school!!!![/QUOTE]

    It sounds to me like you are disgruntled. How are you being "punished?" Are you given more responsibility over other non-BSN RNs and not being compensated for it? Or are you paying off high tuition bills and student loans and feel you should be given more money because of the alphabet soup after your name? As far as other professions, I can't think of any other that has such a diverse method of obtaining licensure, so your logic is flawed. The only similarity that pops to mind is MDs versus DOs, and they are both licensed as physicians with the same practicing rights, and similar pay scales.
    The only complaints I hear are from BSNs who think because they spent an extra year or two in school that they should receive more money. I have yet to hear an ADN demand more compensation than a Diploma RN...I think it is elitist to expect more money for the SAME WORK.
    You're right, it is a choice to further your education--I am an ADN and proud of it as well! I worked hard for my degree, as I am sure you did. I plan to go for my BSN this fall, NOT because I expect more money, but because on a PERSONAL level, I want more. I intend to specialize at some point, and that is the route to take.
    And, just to be a nudge, I'll throw this out for all of those who like to hold their BSN education up for all to worship: my community college ADN program has one of the highest NCLEX pass rates in the country--97% over the course of its history! Every SINGLE graduate from my class of 70 passed the NCLEX---100%...can any BSN program claim THAT?

    Regards,
    Angela

    [This message has been edited by AHarri66 (edited June 12, 2000).]
  12. by   ltm
    hi palpitations. obviously there are advanced practice nurses that have a greater scope of practice than that of a person with only a RN license, but last i checked this discussion was about RNs with either a adn or bsn and compensation. i still know that they do the same job and that is why they should be paid the same. At my BSN college we have a nclex pass rate of 97% and everyone from my class successfully passed the nclex, which is the same for the adn college in the area. i don't think one is better than the other and someone must think that they are the same since a graduate of either program can sit for the same licensing exam.

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 11, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 11, 2000).]
  13. by   Susan Andrews
    Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
    I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?
    Well where to start. NO I DO NOT THINK A DEGREE NURSE SHOULD NECESSARILY GET PAID MORE"WHY" First education is essential. I returned to university in my 40's and as a believer that an RN did not necessarily need a degree I have made a 360 degree turn. I now understand the value of a combined diploma and degree program and truly beleive a combination is necessary you need both the books and experience to be able to start to perform.
    As far as money is concerned I think it is time to value the entire medical team and all specialties. It takes more than an education to make you the best at what you do. Common sense, performance and contribution need to be taken into account. It is time to be more objective in grading salaries and less subjective. It is as well time to appreciate not every nurse needs to be nor wants to be a critical care nurse " Oh yes I worked 20 out of my 28 yrs in trauma and critical care and there wasn't a day went by that I felt we were recognized for what we did nor paid fairly. I would as well like to say that I as well would not have changed places with the nurses working in medicine or geriatrics these are as well a difficult specialties which do not get enough recognition.Another area which needs to be recognized are the nurses working with terminally ill patients cancer and aids. I worked 5 years part time with aids patients and if you don't think these nurses need to continually study you are mistaken if they shouldnot be paid the same as the group So that is my gospel for what it is worth.
    I hope to see nurses in general become more supportive of each other and work the betterment of the group as a hole.
    Susan Andrews

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