BSN minimum requirement - page 4

It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year... Read More

  1. by   JulieW
    Reading your post was an exercise in futility. Take english COMP next semester. It'll help.
  2. by   Tim-GNP
    Since spreading strife is my greatest joy... I submit this idea: go to your favorite doctor, and ask him/her how many years they went to school. Ask them what kind of a degree they have. Then go to a few more doctors and ask them the same questions.

    I think that the point of this discussion was making nursing a profession, by establishment of a minimal requirement for entry level into practice-not who has the better psychomotor skills.

    Insofar as those who only view nurses as 'butt wipers' I think it's your own butt you should wipe, with your RN license.
  3. by   Lburns
    Now you think you are a therapist. I have anger towards people who sit and cry about simle things. You write a post about something that gets people all bent out of shape on when it is discussed with friends and you think that people are going to sit and be happy with it because YOU write it, well you are wrong. We, as you know worked hard in nursing school to get where we are today and for someone of the same profession to come say that we are not good enough because we didn't graduate from a 4 year school is crazy. If you don't consider your self a professional keep to yourself. You should always think that about yourself no matter what you do. I have my opinons and that is what they are, just what I wrote. If you don't like it so what. I don't have to have any anger because the statements I made. YOU are a very funny person for saying that. If someone says something that you don't like or agree with they have a problem. Sounds like you have a little problem there sweetie. Maybe you need to further your education and become a Dr. before you try to go around and making assumptions about what a person has going on in their lives. You know what! I just figured it out! YOU don't have enough control over your life so you try to control others that what it is isn't it. Get a life sweetheart. And as a matter of fact our job is done by other professionals everyday if you want to believe it or not. Go into a hospital that uses a LPN to do a RN's job and all we have to do is there assessment and this pt. has TLC. Or maybe you should go into a home for the Mentally or Physically Disabled, and CNA's or home companions are passing meds and doing tx's. with a 4-hour course that they are taught. And what about this, all of the family members that take care of their loved ones at home and all of the critical thinking that they use when taking care of them. So that is just what we are "GLORIFIED BUTT WIPERS", that must scare you and make you angry, me personally I'm o.k. with it because I knew what I was getting my self into. I know I will have a job after all this is said and done, the shortage of nurses will go on and I will continue on in school because I want to like I said before.
    Anyone who sees themselves as something other than a professional is the reason why we are not seen as professionals. You that is that classical conditioning and they did a good one on nurses. Go to a nurse who has been a nurse for 25-30 years and you all will understand why you feel the way you feel about yourself. It's called LOW SELF ESTEEM and you all are trying to live up to someone else's expectations. Just be the best nurse that you can be and care about your pts. everything will be alright. When I say you it isn't meant towards any particular person. BYEEEEE[/B][/QUOTE]

    My original post was to generate conversation and empower nurses. I am not angry nor do I feel out of control. I felt a need to respond to your last posting believing maybe you may have misunderstood my intentions. I see that it is futile to converse with you at this time as you seem to have issues other than the issue of promoting nurses. I love nursing, both in management and at the bedside; I love going to school to further my knowledge base. I feel no need to defend myself with you futher, I wish you luck with your career.
  4. by   jenspec
    Here in the Philippines we only have one program before one become a full pledge nurse and that is to complete the BSN a four year course of study and then you have to take the Board Exam for nurses. If an individual wants to work in the hospital but do not want to submit himself to a long course of study the he should take the midwifery vocation which will take 2 years of study and his job will be a nurse assistant and who would usually perform the dirty side of the job which is to change linen, wash the poohss, bath the patients, take the vital signs etc. etc..
  5. by   FamilymanRNBSN L/D
    Originally posted by jenspec:
    Here in the Philippines we only have one program before one become a full pledge nurse and that is to complete the BSN a four year course of study and then you have to take the Board Exam for nurses. If an individual wants to work in the hospital but do not want to submit himself to a long course of study the he should take the midwifery vocation which will take 2 years of study and his job will be a nurse assistant and who would usually perform the dirty side of the job which is to change linen, wash the poohss, bath the patients, take the vital signs etc. etc..
    What a heated exchange...

    I think some truth can be found in both camps.

    Having many ways to the same goal seems devisive to some, yet provides opportunity
    to the level which the individual chooses...

    This is america, and we celebrate our differences. I am a male in nursing and from what I can gather from this forum
    BSN to be or not to be? I would say it doesn't matter as much the degree after your name if you still let people walk all over you in the work place. It has been my experiance working my way up through the ranks, first a Monitor tech then a CNA, and unit secretary, and now an RN BSN in L/D that service is what we do. People are our
    business. To love or care for others youmust first care about yourself. Degrees
    3-4 yr. will only be as valuable as those representing the proffession. So if your an ADN RN and you say now to crappy stafing your a proffesional, or if your an BSN RN and you refuse to take report at shift change to protest unsafe conditions, then you have done all uf us proud. What I hope to see more of is the balance of both compassion with the long term reality that
    speaks not only of nursing's strength to "wipe butts" or take report on 12 pts or whatever, but the healthy to say no when needed to protect not only the pt, but the
    caregiver. Most nurses look at the overworked side of things from a shivilrous
    point of view. This is magical thinking at its best. Reality says that the proffession
    will fail to thrive if we portray weak, push
    over types who can't see the value inherent in the Question "what's in it for me?" We all get paid right! Is it only because nursing is so touchy feely that we fail to see the inherent $ value in our services.
    I'm not saying I'm in it for the money, but I'm not saying I'm not in it for the $ either...Are you catching my drift...?
    Todd from Tulsa
  6. by   Tim-GNP
    Sheripa:

    You sure must be proud to be a nurse... you must be the first generation of your family that's progressed from white trash. Have a nice day- PIG!
  7. by   FamilymanRNBSN L/D
    Originally posted by Tim-GNP:
    Sheripa:

    You sure must be proud to be a nurse... you must be the first generation of your family that's progressed from white trash. Have a nice day- PIG!
    Your not worth the effort and your warpped sence of morals will be your ruin. Take a long look at yourself. At least she was honest about her view of nursing. You don't
    really have an opinion you you spend your time picking on others brave enough to express theirs. NC no class...I'll pray
    you get a conscience for your B-day or christmas...
  8. by   cmggriff
    Mijourney,
    Good post as usual. I must disagree wiht your statement that "nursing has been shooting itself in the foot." If nursing pulled the trigger, the AHA, AMA and AONE did the aiming. Every health care administrator I have ever had the misfortune to listen to for more than a minute has intoned the "Nursing is its own worst enemy" myth. Yes, there are those of us who are not nice to one another. But I have been fortunate to work with many who are nice and take just as good care of their fellow nurses
    as their patients.
    This debate about entry level will continue until there is one standard. I have a BA in English and an ADN. I can quote Shakespeare and Browning while wiping butts. Am I less a professional because my RN is not a BSN? I don't feel less professional. I don't think I would act more professional if I had a BSN or MSN or PHD. And there would be many older people who would not become RN's if the entry level was a 4 year program, including me. And I'm sure raising the bar would do nothing for the shortage.
    As far as all the flames go, I like it when people vent on the net. Keeps them from gunning down others. Of course nurses are not like postal workers.
  9. by   sheripa
    Originally posted by FamilymanRNBSN L/D:
    Your not worth the effort and your warpped sence of morals will be your ruin. Take a long look at yourself. At least she was honest about her view of nursing. You don't
    really have an opinion you you spend your time picking on others brave enough to express theirs. NC no class...I'll pray
    you get a conscience for your B-day or christmas...
    Eat crap!!!! You people are so funny. You all want to be more than what you are that is why your opinions about me don't amount to a hill of beans. For your personal info. my moms a nurse, uncle is MD, cousin is dentist, sister is a chemical engineer, brother owns his own small construction company. Besides the list goes on. I have my share of family members that do regular
    9-5 jobs that make more money than YOU and they don't have college degrees. They have only their HS diploma.They know that they are professionals. You people are afraid to hear the truth, stop trying to analyze me because you sound like fools. Like I said before the only reason you all are not seen as professionals is because you feel as though you are not a professional. I asked my uncle about this and he said I don't know why they are like that because me personally as a Dr. I could care less how much education they have as long as they "FOLLOW MY ORDERS CORRECTLY", so you see it is you people who feel inferior you displace this feeling for yourself onto others. YOU HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM IF YOU FEEL YOUR NOT A PROFESSIONAL. I know Customer Service Reps. who know that they are professionals and they only rec'd on the job training, so stop crying, you people sound like Alice the goon to me (wah wah wah wah wah!). While in nsg. school I was told this was going to happen. Only thing they could really tell us was that is was other nurses who felt this way. Please tell me who actually is bold enough to come up to you at work, home, or play and state that you are not a professional. That is person you should have the problem with. Stand up for yourselves and act like adults who are responsible for yourselves. Maybe I am missing something here and I shouldn't be speaking as I am. Please someone, anyone tell me who tells you that you are not a professional. Also,are the colleged degreed the only professionals in this world? I think not. You can be a professional at ANYTHING that you do. Do not let others put you down like that, and furthermore you don't have to listen to what others say to you. Just because someone speaks it doesn't mean that it is the truth. Grow up. This is an open forum and I can say anything that I like to say. For all the ones who have had a negative response to what I have written I can only say in my first post I didn't go after any one individual because various posts had been placed. I was writing how I felt about what I had read. But, you people took it personally, that is your own fault and not mines, I don't and wont apologize for how I feel.
  10. by   sheripa
    Originally posted by JulieW:
    Reading your post was an exercise in futility. Take english COMP next semester. It'll help.
    Get a life and eat ****!! Ha Ha.
  11. by   sheripa
    Originally posted by FamilymanRNBSN L/D:
    What a heated exchange...

    I think some truth can be found in both camps.

    Having many ways to the same goal seems devisive to some, yet provides opportunity
    to the level which the individual chooses...

    This is america, and we celebrate our differences. I am a male in nursing and from what I can gather from this forum
    BSN to be or not to be? I would say it doesn't matter as much the degree after your name if you still let people walk all over you in the work place. It has been my experiance working my way up through the ranks, first a Monitor tech then a CNA, and unit secretary, and now an RN BSN in L/D that service is what we do. People are our
    business. To love or care for others youmust first care about yourself. Degrees
    3-4 yr. will only be as valuable as those representing the proffession. So if your an ADN RN and you say now to crappy stafing your a proffesional, or if your an BSN RN and you refuse to take report at shift change to protest unsafe conditions, then you have done all uf us proud. What I hope to see more of is the balance of both compassion with the long term reality that
    speaks not only of nursing's strength to "wipe butts" or take report on 12 pts or whatever, but the healthy to say no when needed to protect not only the pt, but the
    caregiver. Most nurses look at the overworked side of things from a shivilrous
    point of view. This is magical thinking at its best. Reality says that the proffession
    will fail to thrive if we portray weak, push
    over types who can't see the value inherent in the Question "what's in it for me?" We all get paid right! Is it only because nursing is so touchy feely that we fail to see the inherent $ value in our services.
    I'm not saying I'm in it for the money, but I'm not saying I'm not in it for the $ either...Are you catching my drift...?
    Todd from Tulsa
    Todd you said everything that I said in a nutshell and maybe I said it in a harsher and different way. I don mind "butt wiping", I really don't like to do it but I will because my pts. need it and the CNA's or techs need the help. I love my job. This is something I have been involved with since I was a small child. Maybe I did become a bit angered when I wrote my post because I picked up a certain amount of weakness in some ant all individuals. But, a few people saw it as there time to act, all I could do was the same. But, we all know we don't and can't do this job for free (most of us anyway) because we need to make a living to survive but also for me I love interacting with my pts. the staff is what I don't like working with because as we can see people can take what you say and place a different meaning on it because they don't understand what you are saying. then we get what we have here. People telling me to wipe my butt with my RN license because they didn't like what I ssid. Tell me this Todd, don't we have to wipe feces off of an individual if they are incapable or unable to do it for themselves? If we didn't do that simple task for our pt. wouldn't we have a problem on our hands? Why are so manyt people here afraid to admit that is one of the biggest parts of our job esp. if you wotk in CCU, ICU, or you do Total Pt. Care. I worked two nights ago on a M/S floor and 60% of the time that is what I was doing becauase we didn't have any aides. Just me rambling. But, I like what you said and the wasy you said it.
  12. by   Brownms46
    You know, I must give it to most of you. There have been some really good posts on this subject. Yes, I responded in anger at the original post, and a little sarcastic also. But I must say this has been a very enlightening discussion.

    Most of you have posted somethings that have given me pause for thought on both fronts.

    All would prefer to be treated as a professional, and have their experience, and expertise appropriately acknowledged. But we have to listen to each other, as we listen to our patients, and not just discard what doesn't suit us. I still don't believe the field of nursing, here in these United States, can in our lifetime, all of sudden switch to being a miminum 4yr education entry field. It maybe something that could possibly be accepted in a progressive process, somewhere in the distant future. However, I do think becoming more sensitive to each others contributions to this profession is a better way to steer toward that goal, then looking down "your" noses at those who for economic, family or whatever reasons, chose to come into this field on the different levels now allowed. Or because now that you have obtained your higher degree, the lesser degree is no longer a valid one to become an RN. Yes...I know I too, must work on my feelings about those who wave their higher degrees in my face, when they possess little or no real practical expertise, and fail to live up to the level of nursing their degrees should have prepared them for. That is until someone of a lesser degree precepts them, ...takes them by the hand, and helps them to function during the one or two years it takes for them to get up to speed.

    Wait a min...don't get those fingers to pecking yet! But after reading some of the posts here, I think maybe I might have made an error in my rush to judgement. So here's a question. Since the BSN is "supposedly" much more prepared than anyone else. Why not have a more difficult board exam to pass? A seperate exam, that really tests the merits of your arguement, that you're better prepared, and are functioning with a higher level of knowledge than those without a BSN. Because your point loses validity, when the different levels of RNs are able to pass the same exam.
    Boy am I going to get it now! It's just a thought. :-) Wait..don't go yet! Now what if, this fictional exam were to be established. What would you then do with the current lesser degreed nurses? Would you allow for their experience level to be able to take this more difficult exam, and granfather them in? Or should they, with all their skills, and experience, be forced to go back, and take the same courses you did? I mean really, what path do you feel would be prudent to allow the profession to evolve into this minimum BSN entry level?
    I could expand on this further, but I'll let you bite on this first.
    "They can eat me, but they can't kill me"

    Gloria
  13. by   chili2641
    Wow, this post was rough. I know that I have said some things on this B/B that I would like to take back. I worked as a cna for several years. I heard this debate and I witnessed a lot of power tripping by several nurses. I also had the privelege of working beside some of the best. I am a first generation college grad. My father was a factory supervisor and my mother was a house wife. I was planning on working as a nurse aid. I also wanted to get married and have a family. I had no intentions of ever going to college it did not appeal to me at all. It was my experience working as a nurse aid that changed my mind. In nursing there is a clear rank and file. Tittles are very important and the one thing that allows someone to move up in the chain is going to school and obtaining an education. Is a cna a nurse no. Why? Because they have not gone to school. Is a nurse aid with a BS a nurse? No but they are now educated and can leave the field.

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    Nursing assistant

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