BSN is a joke - page 3

I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between... Read More

  1. by   Lipoma
    I'm currently in an accelerated BSN program and one of my instructors said "nurses are the least credentialed licensed health care professional at the bedside."

    After I thought about it...I realized it was so true. You have speech therapists (MS), physical therapists (DPT), physicians (MD/DO), advanced practice providers (PA - masters, NP - masters/DNP, CAA - masters), dietitians (BS)...yet there are still diploma nurses and or ASN nurses at the bedside. You won't find another licensed health care professional at the bedside with less than a Bachelors...so nurses are now playing catch up.
  2. by   klone
    Quote from JKL33
    Pasted from ANCC Magnet FAQ May 2017.

    (Sorry, I've tried to fix the formatting a couple of times and it's still off).
    I stand corrected! It appears they have changed their policy in the last 6 months. Previously there was no requirement for frontline nurses to have a BSN. It looks like the ANCC has fallen in line with the IOM.
  3. by   mushyrn
    Nurses who degrade advanced education are the joke, in my honest opinion. That being said, I also find it pointless for hospitals to REQUIRE a BSN to work - however, all nurses should want to continue their educations. A thing learned is never a waste. I utilize some things I learned in my RN-BSN program in my hospital practice at times. I at least have a better understanding of what goes on "behind the curtain".

    Very few people call themselves "professionals" with just an associates degree - with a Bachelors degree it is more likely that you can truly consider yourself a professional vs. a vocational level of employee.

    In the end, just see it as an accomplishment. You will have a Bachelors degree. If you later decide to pursue graduate school, you will already have had that requirement met. Just do it.
  4. by   elkpark
    Quote from JKL33
    Pasted from ANCC Magnet FAQ May 2017.

    (Sorry, I've tried to fix the formatting a couple of times and it's still off).
    The FAQs you quote are referring to hospitals that have chosen to set a goal of 80% BSN-prepared nursing staff, and what documentation they need to provide the ANCC once they've met that goal (they need to supply documentation of how they're going to maintain that percentage).

    The Magnet program doesn't require any specific percentage of BSN-prepared RNs. It requires that hospitals set a goal for themselves, a goal of their own choosing, that shows they are committed to the ongoing educational development of their nursing staff. A hospital could just as easily set a goal that 75% of their nurses will be certified in their specialties (the ANCC would probably prefer that, actually, since they make money off certifications, and don't make money off nurses returning to school for BSNs ), or anything else that would show an ongoing commitment to the education/professional development of their nursing staff. Since the IOM report recommending 80% BSN-prepared nursing staff by 2020 got so much attention, lots of hospitals have taken the easy, no-brainer route and made that recommendation their goal. But that is the individual hospital's choice.

    Magnet FAQ's | UC Davis Nursing (Scroll down to "Do I have to have a BSN to work in a Magnet Hospital?" Page is copyrighted 2017, so, current info)

    There's also a nice fact sheet by the AACC, American Association of Commmunity Colleges, about Magnet designation and ADN-prepared nurses (documenting that the Magnet program doesn't mandate any particular proportion of BSN-prepared RNs), but I can't get the link to work. It shows up near the top when I Google "magnet status and bsn requirements."
  5. by   Been there,done that
    "Very few people call themselves "professionals" with just an associates degree".

    Who would those people be? In my 35 years of experience, I have mentored doctors, nurses and now insurance professionals.

    The additional requirement to obtain a BSN is a bunch of academic hooey.. that does not apply to real world nursing.
  6. by   klone
    Does anyone else think "911 is a joke" whenever they see the title of this thread?
  7. by   mushyrn
    Quote from Been there,done that

    Who would those people be?

    The additional requirement to obtain a BSN is a bunch of academic hooey.. that does not apply to real world nursing.
    I think that's my point, unless I'm missing yours. Associates degree does not often equal a professional level of education/work. If nurses do not wish to be considered professionals - fine, let the building of our body of knowledge die, go back to diplomacy programs within hospitals (who needs a degree to be a nurse?), and become technicians again who mindlessly follow the rules and orders of other actual professionals (who actually got degrees!).

    Right?

    We want to be considered respected colleagues and professionals with others like PT/OT/ST/MD/PharmD/NP/PA, but we don't want to have to do the darn education to get there. Well, too bad.
  8. by   Cowboyardee
    Quote from mushyrn
    I think that's my point, unless I'm missing yours. Associates degree does not often equal a professional level of education/work. If nurses do not wish to be considered professionals - fine, let the building of our body of knowledge die, go back to diplomacy programs within hospitals (who needs a degree to be a nurse?), and become technicians again who mindlessly follow the rules and orders of other actual professionals (who actually got degrees!).

    Right?

    We want to be considered respected colleagues and professionals with others like PT/OT/ST/MD/PharmD/NP/PA, but we don't want to have to do the darn education to get there. Well, too bad.
    For whatever it's worth, diploma-educated nurses have always outperformed BSN-prepared nurses on the only metric by which they can be compared: the NCLEX. In markets where diploma programs still exist, diploma graduates are often considered better prepared for the clinical practice as new grads than ADN and BSN grads. Perhaps there might be something to nursing education programs that emphasize clinical hours, pathophysiology, hands-on experience?

    I get that RNs want to be respected as professionals, but I must get off that bandwagon once rigorously incorporating clinical skills and knowledge into our education becomes beneath our professional dignity.

    Some sanity please. The problem with RN to BSN programs isn't that they are more education. It's that they're crappy education. They don't have to be. They could emphasize nursing practice, or offer tracks for those students who are less interested in blow off classes on health surveys and basic assessment and who would rather improve their skills and knowledge base for the bedside jobs requiring a more advanced degree. Every time I see a BSN-educated nurse working on a tele unit who can't reliably identify an AV block or flippin Afib on the monitor, I think to myself that the nursing education system is failing miserably.
    Last edit by Cowboyardee on Oct 11
  9. by   ~♪♫ in my ♥~
    It strikes me as funny how much the OP focuses on APA formatting. That part was a trivial part of my MSN. Sure, I wrote a number of papers and yes, they were all APA formatted, but it was trivial in that I simply installed PERLA and didn't think much more about it.

    APA was the least of my considerations when writing papers.

    That said, I do think that nursing education is light on the hard math/science and places excessive emphasis on the psychosocial.
  10. by   RobbiRN
    This year, in an attempt to increase the percentage of BSNs, our hospital gave all BSNs a $1.50/hr raise. Our hospital also stopped the certification pay we used to get for CEN. So, in the current market, the 100 hours of CE classes to renew a CEN are no longer as valuable as BSN.

    I see value in all education. Pretending that every nurse who doesn't get a BSN is stagnant and lazy is shallow and myopic. Some of us had four-year degrees in other areas, so the two added years for the ADN equals six total. The CEN renewal classes I have taken through the years keep me sharp and focused where I plan to continue my career. An ER RN, CEN, who has worked beside me for years just upgraded to her BSN. She feels strongly that, while the classes were interesting, "there was nothing in them that makes me better at what I do." CEN immediately contributes to an applicable knowledge base. Hospitals may be missing the boat here in their quest for bragging rights.

    Provocative sidebar: The studies that show BSNs are safer always intrigue me. The researchers admit that they can't completely eliminate all other variables, but the results are paraded as if the research has completely isolated ASN versus BSN as the basis for safety issues. Our ER had a huge spike in lab labeling errors this year. The only obvious change I can see was a big turnover in staff. Several older ASNs were replaced by new BSNs. I could write it up and include the numbers, but I don't think the big teaching hospitals would be impressed.
  11. by   missmollie
    Reading the responses of those for the BSN education, the general theme is that to be professional, you need more education. I agree with the OP, and I agree with the person who said that RN to BSN programs provide a "crappy education".

    Nursing school was difficult. I often say it was the hardest thing I ever did. My BS in English was difficult, but I was able to party my way through college while getting that degree. My BSN education is a joke. I don't read the textbook. I don't print or listen to the power points. I do spend quite a lot of time researching, but that is only because I find it enjoyable. I write my papers ten hours before they are due, and I get A's on them, although this can be contributed to the previous English degree. The biggest issue with the BSN education is how ridiculously easy it is. I believe we need challenges to grow, and there is no challenge with the RN to BSN program. I believe there is a difference between a BSN and the RN to BSN programs.

    It is a mindless series of tasks that provides no value to the nurse, the hospital, or the patient. There is value in education, but the RN to BSN programs lack that education. The BSN should be difficult to achieve, it should require more time and effort on the part of the student, and it should provide a challenge. The way the classes are currently designed, it does not serve the student well.
  12. by   umbdude
    It might have to do with the RN-to-BSN format, which is usually online and self-taught. I attended one semester of ASN then switched to a BSN, and I found that my BSN delivers a far better clinical and academic education than the ASN. The BSN nursing research, capstone, leadership, and ethics/policy are more useful than you might think. These courses aren't immediately applicable on the floor when you're working as a staff RN performing tasks, but they'll come in handy if you ever want to go beyond bedside or get involved with research/QI/policy setting. Being able to organize and write papers is important no matter what you do.
  13. by   Jedrnurse
    Quote from Sour Lemon
    But have you seen the way that some nurses write on here like they have never heard of a punctuation mark capital letter or paragraph so idk because maybe the witting does help even if its not something thats used everyday or even used at all because they hopefully you wont come out sounding like you failed the fifth grade twice, personally i will probably not get my bachelors unless i have to because i'm already old and a little tired and i can find work without it until i retire, but i do believe that more education is always better
    Beautiful satire of bad writing! Don't forget the often used "ect". (Why people use the abbreviation for electroconvulsive therapy instead of "etc"- et cetera- I'll never know. Maybe there's more depression out there than one would think...)

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