'Borderline' students? - page 4

Ok, this is a vent. :( In school, we have to participate in a survey about predicted college success vs home support systems, class load, work hours, etc. This is to receive a grant, and those... Read More

  1. by   New CCU RN
    Well, what if a student exceeds the miniumum standards in everything except for one area such as the ACT.

    There are universities out there that are not requiring a standardized test any longer as part of their admissions process. There are many problems with every standarized test which is a commonly known fact.

    So say the student has A/B's on their prereq's, has worked as a CNA for five years, volunteered on the rescue squad, has an awesome admission interview, stellar references, but scored a 19 on the ACT??

    Then there is a student who got B-'s on their prereq's, no past experience, mediocore references, but damn... they got a 25 on the ACT.

    Who should be admitted?
  2. by   AllieElizAbeth
    I dropped out of LPN school because studying took up all my time. I struggle to learn everything but still had a B average. Guess, I got discourage.
  3. by   researchrabbit
    Originally posted by New CCU RN
    Well, what if a student exceeds the miniumum standards in everything except for one area such as the ACT.

    There are universities out there that are not requiring a standardized test any longer as part of their admissions process. There are many problems with every standarized test which is a commonly known fact.

    So say the student has A/B's on their prereq's, has worked as a CNA for five years, volunteered on the rescue squad, has an awesome admission interview, stellar references, but scored a 19 on the ACT??

    Then there is a student who got B-'s on their prereq's, no past experience, mediocore references, but damn... they got a 25 on the ACT.

    Who should be admitted?
    If it is a requirement for admission, then the school needs to stick with that. ACTs can be retaken...or the student can go to a school which does not require the ACT...or the student can go the LPN route and later bridge to an RN.

    If requirements are relaxed for some, they must be relaxed for all, so then why have any requirements?
  4. by   researchrabbit
    Originally posted by AllieElizAbeth
    I dropped out of LPN school because studying took up all my time. I struggle to learn everything but still had a B average. Guess, I got discourage.
    I hope you will try again; a B average is great!
  5. by   kimmicoobug
    I think that certain students should be allowed to get help if they desire it. We didn't have to take the ACT, so that is irrelevant at my school. The minimum is a 75% on prereques and that is it to get in. The most coddling I have seen is a student was allowed to take exams in a separate room because she had such severe test anxiety and people finishing their tests while she was still testing freaked her out. Unfortunately, she still failed out, but she did really well in the clinical setting. Our school also gives you two chances, then you're out.
  6. by   Q.
    Reb,
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding the problem. Is this referring to students with diagnosed learning disabilities, or students who are just struggling in general?
  7. by   BrandyBSN
    Im against a "gray" area. You either meet the requirements, or you dont. Shouldnt matter if you missed it "just barely". Would you then say that we should license nurses who "just barely" fail the NCLEX? That test is Pass/Fail. not, fail-the-test-but-be-ok-at-everything-else.

    Black and white. Pass admission requirements or not. No room for "grays".

    Just my opinion (ofcourse)
    BrandyBSN
  8. by   delirium
    Originally posted by Susy K
    Reb,
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding the problem. Is this referring to students with diagnosed learning disabilities, or students who are just struggling in general?
    No. Students with diagnosed learning diabilities are assisted already. They meet with the dean of students with their special needs, and their needs are met, so that they can progress with the rest of the class. This is not the problem.

    This is about students who are struggling. It seems to be a trickle down problem. As in, they relax the ACT standards, let the people in, and then they struggle with the material. It seems fairly obvious to me that they should utilize the ACT standards as they were intended to be utilized, and maybe there wouldn't be such an issue.
  9. by   New CCU RN
    I am wondering if the school feels that the ACT is not a determinant of success?

    Is one standarized exam really going to predict whether a student struggles or not? Do you find that those who did poorly on the ACT but were let into the program are now the same ones who are doing poorly in your program? Or are there other contributing factors? Are there other things the school should be screening before letting them in? Or should the school let in borderline students and then let them sink or swim...

    What about those students that perhaps are returning back to school and may have slacked off in previous years but now are much more focused and ready to engage in learning? Should they not be let in bc of their past situation?

    I don't disagree that students that as a whole do not qualify should not be let in... but perhaps the standards are not directed at the real predictors of success...

    Just playing devil's advocate... but there is lots of talk out there about what little reliability standarized tests have. Every year you hear of another university which is dropping the requirement of the SAT. I dont have an exact research study, but will look for one, that investigates the reliability of the SAT/ACT.
  10. by   mattsmom81
    Most colleges in my area have extensive remedial programs, etc for strugging students. My son's college advisor admits it is a whole different college atmosphere today than when he (and I) went to college.

    He blames the failure of our public schools and feels many students today were not prepared for college in high school. Too many were passed through and are not up to par. So all the remediation is to 'help' these victims of our system. JUCO's here plug into programs/government aid and seem to encourage these revolving doors students who are "still working on that GED" and can't seem to pass their basic courses...meanwhile they're on full assistant grants with living stipends and goin' round the program for the 4th or 5th time...

    I see this here in the MA and LVN programs...not sure about the RN but wouldn't doubt it occurs to some extent there too. I agree this is definitely a money making operation for the schools.

    I guess they can afford to be humanitarian with all the big $$$ they make off this effort, eh?
  11. by   Q.
    Originally posted by mattsmom81


    He blames the failure of our public schools and feels many students today were not prepared for college in high school. Too many were passed through and are not up to par.
    One of the instructors for the BSN program at the university I am attending was a guest lecturer for one of our curriculum classes, and she was discussing how she was noticing just that: students enter college and have no idea how to take notes, for example, and don't have the skills to listen to an hour long lecture and extrapolate from it what is needed to be learned - also can't speed-read or "skim" effectively and are basically struggling in basic A&P classes and the like.

    She blames the public schools reliance on internet tools and visual type learning, so that when it comes to regular, hard core lectures with good old fashioned note-taking, these students don't have a clue. It's terrible.
  12. by   kimtab
    Look, lots of people DO struggle in nursing school. Lot's of people struggle in college period. But especially in Nursing classes--I think there is a different formula for academic success than most people are used to from other academic areas. I think having resources available is a good idea, and I wouldn't really think to be pissed off if my school started exploring it, although I am doing well without any aid. It benefits all students to have support in place, not just those "borderline" people.

    Our school doesn't round grades. Do you know what the difference between a 74.95 (failing) and a 75 (passing) is? One question on one test. You could be losing some good nurses that way. Sometimes all people need is a little support to reach their potential.

    Kim
  13. by   caroladybelle
    Passing scores for my school was nothing below 80%. No rounding up. In addition, in courses that had two components (Lab/clinical and course work), one had to have at least 80% in each portion, not merely average to 80% for both together.

    One could fail one course. Any second failed course got you kicked to the curb - NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!

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