Beating my head against the wall - page 2

Ughh. Today MD writes an order ok'ing for a pt to smoke (we have facilities available.) Pt is on respiratory isolation. Infx control people say it's ok as long as we take appropriate precautions... Read More

  1. by   ERNurse752
    YOU PPL IN THE HOSPITAL ARE ALWAYS BUSY

    "well yeah.
    i thought i was being nice. she picked up the phone and called the supervisor claiming we wouldnt let her go smoke because we were prejudiced of her blindness.
    supervisor MADE me take her down RIGHT THEN.
    and she wasnt even my pt."

    What a bunch of cr*p! I would've told my supervisor to get off her lazy a**, come in, and do it herself, b/c I have pts to take care of!

    Like nurses have time to take pts out to smoke...you do all that, with gowning her up, getting everybody else out, sitting with her while she smokes, cleaning the place up...and then how soon after that is she going to want to smoke AGAIN? AHHHHH!!!!

    NO WAY!
  2. by   ERNurse752
    And then what happens if whatever infection this person has just happens to escape all the precautions, and there's an outbreak?
    Oops, that's your fault too, b/c you weren't careful enough...
    Bad nurse!
  3. by   sandstormsdust
    as a smoker... sometimes there is little else that can calm me down or help me think then a smoke... so I'm not mad at the doc at all.....

    Wonder what would happen if someone put a sign out side there coffee shop saying "no brown haired patrons allowed".... that is what they did to the smokers and North Americas did to the African Americans... It is discrimination... one way or another...

    I choose to smoke, I enjoy smoking and I do so with the knowledge that in the end it could kill me ... none the less.... my body my choice...

    and so if that is what the patient wanted - all the power to the doctor to give it... wasn't it in another thread that docs are cruel.... maybe this doctor knows this patient and gave the patient the one thing that patient enjoyed.... GREAT DOC eh????
  4. by   kids
    OK, I should be more sympathetic because I am a smoker BUT...I do not take patients with me on my breaks and I would not agree to deminish the care I give to others to help what sounds like a max assist to go smoke.

    She has a MD order saying it is "OK" for her to go smoke...nothing says you HAVE to do it.

    YES she has 'patient rights'...but the interesting thing about her having rights is they CAN NOT infringe on the rights of other patients. It sounds to me like honoring her rights would violate the rights of others. Taking her to smoke would, due to the extreem nature of her care, and the demands it would cause on several staff would impact the care of the other patients.

    Just as an after thought...Both smokers and non-smokers have the right to a smoke free work place, sounds silly about the smokers I know but if you think about it...smokers choose to expose them selves on personal time...that is not a passive consent to exposure on the job. Also it is discriminatory to 'make' a smoker take patients out to smoke, and a violation of the non-smokers rights to make them do it.
  5. by   Furball
    Originally posted by sandstormsdust
    as a smoker... sometimes there is little else that can calm me down or help me think then a smoke... so I'm not mad at the doc at all.....

    Wonder what would happen if someone put a sign out side there coffee shop saying "no brown haired patrons allowed".... that is what they did to the smokers and North Americas did to the African Americans... It is discrimination... one way or another...

    I choose to smoke, I enjoy smoking and I do so with the knowledge that in the end it could kill me ... none the less.... my body my choice...

    and so if that is what the patient wanted - all the power to the doctor to give it... wasn't it in another thread that docs are cruel.... maybe this doctor knows this patient and gave the patient the one thing that patient enjoyed.... GREAT DOC eh????
    Last I heard having brown hair doesn't cause people standing in your vicinity health problems like a lifetime of inhaling second hand smoke does....segregating smokers is NOT discrimination .
    Don't you care about other people's health? How on earth can you compare the discrimination faced by African Americans to keeping smoke away from folks who value their health? Totally different and very belittling to blacks who've suffered horrible discrimination. Hope I make sense because I'm a bit annoyed.
    Last edit by Furball on Jul 13, '02
  6. by   hoolahan
    Why don't they just let her smoke in her room with a family member who agrees to sign an agreement to be responsible?

    I understand your need sandstorm, but to have to sit in full isolation garb and then clean the room just so someone can smoke? Smoke free environments aren't just for pt's, they are also for nurses. I cannot bear to be in the presence of cig smoke, get wheezy. Why should I have to wear a mask and come out of the room w my hair and clothes smelling like smoke. Why should I have to use an inhaler when I don't smoke, and my home and workplace are supposed to smoke free? If any supervisor made me do that I would resign on the spot!!
  7. by   disher
    Kids-r-fun is right, staff have a right to a smoke free workplace and are not obligatd to sit with the patient in a smoke filled environment. Can the family be instructed in infection control measures and take the patient out for a smoke when they visit?
  8. by   Lunatichick
    I hope when I am sick and on my last leg and exercise my freedom to choose none of you "caring" nurses are "caring" for me. It sounds that at this point in her life would not be an opportune time for her to quit and if she doesn't so be it. Kinda gives us job security. If we had compliant patients would we have a job? Besides, everyone has an addiction I don't think this poor woman should be punished because a liberal, mean-spirited nurse doesn't agree with it. What if someone deemed the habit you have harmful and took it away?
  9. by   sandstormsdust
    quoted from Furball
    "Last I heard having brown hair doesn't cause people standing in your vicinity health problems like a lifetime of inhaling second hand smoke does....segregating smokers is NOT discrimination .
    Don't you care about other people's health? How on earth can you compare the discrimination faced by African Americans to keeping smoke away from folks who value their health? Totally different and very belittling to blacks who've suffered horrible discrimination. Hope I make sense because I'm a bit annoyed."

    Discrimination is at all levels.... why should i as a smoker be discriminated against?????????

    I did not compare the discrimination on the Afro-Americans at the level of smokers... nothing of the sort....

    I am merily pointing out that EVERYBODY discriminates against something or someone... along the same line that abortion is still argued....

    Ranging in the feild of ethics, morality and politics... DISCRIMINATION IS OUT THERE WEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT....

    If you don't like my smoking then don't come near me... I won't be smoking infront of you but why should I go outside out of respect to you when any person who swears can stay inside in front of me.... I don't like swearing and in my house you'll be asked to leave.... IF THIS PT WANTS TO SMOKE THEN LET HER.... and let the doctor give the order... so be it
  10. by   kids
    Originally posted by Lunatichick
    I hope when I am sick and on my last leg and exercise my freedom to choose none of you "caring" nurses are "caring" for me. It sounds that at this point in her life would not be an opportune time for her to quit and if she doesn't so be it. Kinda gives us job security. If we had compliant patients would we have a job? Besides, everyone has an addiction I don't think this poor woman should be punished because a liberal, mean-spirited nurse doesn't agree with it. What if someone deemed the habit you have harmful and took it away?
    I have a HUGE objection to your portraying any poster here as "a liberal, mean-spirited nurse" simply because they "don't agree with it". Nurses who are standing up for their own rights and the rights of their other patients do not deserve this. If you read the original post, this patient is NOT terminal but she has a shortend life expectancy...so nobody is talking about depriving a "dying" person anything.

    Giving booze to a person dying of endstage alcholism doesn't impact anyone but them.

    Giving methadone to a heroin addict with dying of endstage endocarditis doesn't impact anyone but them.

    Taking Nurses away from multiple patients to meet the emotional cravings of a patient who refuses medication to meet the physical cravings of her addiction impacts everyone on the unit.

    Bottom line is...Nurses, smoking and non-smoking have the right to not be exposed to second hand smoke. Every patient on that unit has the right not to have their Nurse tied up with the excessive demands of ONE patient.

    Nurses also have the right NOT to be critisized for standing up for them selfs or the rights of their patients as a group when rights of ONE patient infringes.
  11. by   outbackannie
    Sounds like Doc just "passed the buck" so he'd still look like the hero to the patient. Bet he wrote the order and "booked" right out the door before anyone had a chance to corner him!
  12. by   Nurse Ratched
    This person has had no visitors in to my knowledge. So staff is it as far as assistance. I believe outbackannie's assessment of the situation is right on the money. It was the last order he wrote of the day.

    Those who are concerned that I am being harsh on a patient that smokes: if I was that harsh, I would lobby against the removal of the smoking area entirely. Respiratory thereapy would love me - it really chaps their butts when we have to call a pt out of the smoking room for a treatment. Ours is the only place in the facility that allows smoking within the building, period - maybe because we are a locked unit and other patients on other units are permitted to go outside to smoke.

    But I do not go in the smoking room to pass meds, and I do not assist patients in any way in getting there (other than giving directions, of course! ) or in lighting their cigarette. And I don't take away huge blocks of time I don't have from my other 4-5 patients to assist one with something that is in no way beneficial from a medical or nursing standpoint. This patient does also happen to be an alcoholic - another perfectly legal addiction; but we don't order prn Jack Daniel's for her.

    Thanks for all the input, everybody!
  13. by   mattsmom81
    Agree with most of the posters that this woman's request to smoke involves unreasonable time and effort by the staff and should not be viewed as her 'right'.

    We had such problems in this regard at my last facility we had a policy statement written out and all patients had to sign a waiver...that the staff did NOT accept responsibility for their smoking and we did NOT have to accompany them outside or be subjected to secondhand smoke. If they had to smoke, family members MUST be with them and assume all responsibility. Smoking assistance is not a nursing function or a patient right, IMO. The policy offered patches and sedation as the preferred option.

    I thought it was a GREAT policy. Most just took patches and Xanax rather than be responsible themselves....

close