associates in nursing is pointless

elleNY · Nov 05, 2009, 04:37 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Not a nurse yet so I can't speak authoritatively on this issue, but I have spent hours researching and supposedly in New York (Manhattan anyway) there has been a move toward BSN-only in the private sector. In addition to this, there is something in the legislature (hasnt passed yet) for NY/NJ that would mandate all nurses receive their BSN within 10 years of becoming an RN...One might also look at the advanced practice trend from masters to doctorate and infer that this might be indicative of a move from associates to bachelors as the standard.. As I said, I heard this through the "grapevine", but it was enough for me to rule out an associates program with certainty. Perhaps you can use this time of unemployment to start a RN-BSN program? Good luck! Oh and if anyone can follow up on what I said, please do!

Elle

kkia123 · Nov 05, 2009, 04:46 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by elleNY

Not a nurse yet so I can't speak authoritatively on this issue, but I have spent hours researching and supposedly in New York (Manhattan anyway) there has been a move toward BSN-only in the private sector. In addition to this, there is something in the legislature (hasnt passed yet) for NY/NJ that would mandate all nurses receive their BSN within 10 years of becoming an RN...One might also look at the advanced practice trend from masters to doctorate and infer that this might be indicative of a move from associates to bachelors as the standard.. As I said, I heard this through the "grapevine", but it was enough for me to rule out an associates program with certainty. Perhaps you can use this time of unemployment to start a RN-BSN program? Good luck! Oh and if anyone can follow up on what I said, please do!

Elle

Yes this is what I am doing now. I start January...another issue I am having is whether to get a BSN or use my two degrees to do a MSN program. Again, I still paid for a license, passed my test and should be able to work while I am in pursuit of another degree. But everything you heard through the grapevine is true, however when I applied for the AS program nurses were getting jobs with out a problem, so I was thinking of saving myself some money and go the less expensive route. Like most nurses with a ASN, they have their employers or unions reimburse them for school and this was my plan.

elleNY · Nov 05, 2009, 05:05 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by kkia123

Yes this is what I am doing now. I start January...another issue I am having is whether to get a BSN or use my two degrees to do a MSN program. Again, I still paid for a license, passed my test and should be able to work while I am in pursuit of another degree. But everything you heard through the grapevine is true, however when I applied for the AS program nurses were getting jobs with out a problem, so I was thinking of saving myself some money and go the less expensive route. Like most nurses with a ASN, they have their employers or unions reimburse them for school and this was my plan.

Kkia -- I think the best route depends on what kind of masters you want. For NP and the likes, there are many schools that accept associates rn with bachelors in other field so it might make the most sense to just do a masters! For something like CRNA, most grad programs require a BSN. I would check out your options in the area and would seriously consider going directly to grad school if CRNA is not your goal! Let me know what you decide! You might even be able to pick up shifts while doing masters and thus would graduate with a masters and experience...I think this is a good plan for you!

Elle

TiffyRN · Nov 05, 2009, 05:46 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by kkia123

Every hospital website that I have been on in NY state has countless nursing positions available and their ALL asking for 1-2 yrs experience. Some even say 5!!! Are they kidding??

The thing is that hospitals are being "picky" right now because they can be. This job situation is the most blatent evidence of what many here have been saying for years. There is no nursing shortage, simply a shortage of nurses willing to work. Right now a lot of nurses are willing be work because the other member of the household may be having trouble finding work. Most of those nurses who weren't previously working (or were working PRN once every month or two) have experience and hospitals would darn sure prefer to hire someone with experience than pay for a new grad to orient for 3-6 months. And of course the areas of the country harder hit by other job losses are seeing less jobs for nurses because nurses are often moms/wives that have chosen to stay home but now must return to work.

Point being, if we go and eliminate ADN programs now, they'll just be screaming for them in 5 years or so (or whenever the economy is "feeling better"). Most of those nurses who went back to work won't need to stay because their spouses will be employed again and they will stay home again, and we'll be back to where we were and begging for RN's of any flavor.

*MedSurgeMess* · Nov 05, 2009, 06:48 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by elleNY

Kkia -- I think the best route depends on what kind of masters you want. For NP and the likes, there are many schools that accept associates rn with bachelors in other field so it might make the most sense to just do a masters! For something like CRNA, most grad programs require a BSN. I would check out your options in the area and would seriously consider going directly to grad school if CRNA is not your goal! Let me know what you decide! You might even be able to pick up shifts while doing masters and thus would graduate with a masters and experience...I think this is a good plan for you!

Elle

CRNA requires a minimum of 2 yrs ICU experience at most schools, and most programs require some experience as well. Check into the program and see if anything seems interesting....

XingtheBBB · Nov 05, 2009, 06:53 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by kkia123

I am located in Long Island N.Y.

Then I agree with you. No school in the NY metro area should be allowed to offer an ADN. Years ago, when hospitals were begging for nurses, I tried to get a weekend/perdiem position in the city. No luck. They were short in all the big centers but they required a BSN. You might be better looking further south in Jersey?

PMFB-RN · Nov 05, 2009, 09:24 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by kkia123

Hi, I'm just curious as why there are still AS nursing programs if every organization wants nurses that have a BSN?

I have a BS in health science and I plan to bridge my BS with my associates and either 1) get a BSN in one year or 2) get a MSN in two years. I could have went into a accelerated BS to RN program but I missed the deadline and figured I would get my AS and work for awhile and then go back to school and further my education, while the organization pays for it (bad move!!!). However, every door has been shut in my face. No one wants to hire me because of my AS degree and the fact that I am a new grad.

*** I work in the SICU of a large hospital. We have a 7 month nurse residency program to train new grads into the SICU and MICU and you have to have an associates degree to apply. BSN new grads are not welcome to apply. We are a Magnet hospital (whoop-ti-do).
Your problem isn't your lack of a BSN, it is a lack of new grad job opening at this time. The exact same thing happened in 1995. By 1997 it had turned around completely. Just as soon as the economy gets a little better and people start getting jobs there is going to be a HUGE exodus of nurses out of nursing jobs. The world will be your oyster.

dannyc12 · Nov 05, 2009, 09:31 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by kkia123

Can anyone shed any light on this matter for me?

You can shed the light yourself by taking a look at the percentage of working nurses whose initial degree was an ASN. After you do that, please let us know what you think.

(Hint: Around 35%)

TDFlMedicRN · Nov 05, 2009, 10:26 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Originally Posted by dannyc12

You can shed the light yourself by taking a look at the percentage of working nurses whose initial degree was an ASN. After you do that, please let us know what you think.

(Hint: Around 35%)

I beg to differ. According to the HRSA report of the National Sample Survey of Registered Nurses:

"The initial educational preparation for the largest proportion of RNs is the associate degree. Forty-two percent, or 1,227,256 of the 2,909,357 RNs received their initial nursing education in an associate degree program. Similarly, in terms of the highest level of preparation for nursing, the trend from 1980 to 2004 indicates that an increasing number of RNs receive baccalaureate and master’s degrees, even if their initial preparation for nursing was an associates degree or a diploma."

Lots of RN's start with ADNs and enter the workforce. Many continue on to get higher degrees. The associate degree is still the entry level technical degree into the nursing workforce, and that's not likely to change moving forward.

Job prospects have more to do with economic factors, and job candidates than with a trend towards requiring BSNs over ADNs. As the "boomers" age into retirement, and the nursing schools continue to have difficulty attracting and retaining faculty - the role of the ADN will continue to be essential.

That being said - the baccalaureate degree should be a goal for all professional nurses - just not a hiring requirement.

pageygirl · Nov 05, 2009, 11:37 PM

Re: associates in nursing is pointless

Even with 4 years of tele experience i havnt been able to branch into er or icu as of yet. Hospitals dont want to pay a long orientation good luck to you in your job search..

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associates in nursing is pointless

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