artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 69

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More

  1. by   UM Review RN

    Did everyone hear that the county has refused to allow any witnesses to the autopsy? The powerful protect the powerful and they are often corrupt.

    Of course they don't allow witnesses!

    Why should they?!

    Why should the disallowing of witnesses cause you to allege that our ME is corrupt?
  2. by   Roland
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    Of course they don't allow witnesses!

    Why should they?!

    Why should the disallowing of witnesses cause you to allege that our ME is corrupt?
    By witness I meant a second medical examiner appointed by the parents or the govenor not the general public. Such as the following:

    www.newsmax.com
    Friday, April 1, 2005 3:32 p.m. EST
    Schindler Coroner Nixed From Terri Autopsy

    Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, the well-known forensic pathologist and coroner of Allegheny County, Pa., told listeners of a morning radio show that he was denied permission to observe Terri Schiavo's autopsy, despite the wishes of her parents.

    A medical examiner in Pinellas County, Fla., is conducting an autopsy that could help determine what Schiavo's state of consciousness was and whether she was abused by her husband, as the Schindlers allege.

    Dr. Wecht, appearing on the syndicated "America's Morning Show with Quinn and Rose," based in Pittsburgh, said that an investigator working for the Schindlers' lawyers had called him on Thursday to see whether he would be agreeable to observing the autopsy.
    Dr. Wecht told Quinn and Rose he was certainly agreeable to that, but that several hours later he received word that the medical examiner had declined to give him permission.

    Dr. Wecht told the morning hosts that he considered this a mistake, according to Rose Somma Tennent. "He said that, if this were in [his] office, [he] would have said sure - not just because of professional courtesy, but because of the controversy sourrounding this case," Somma Tennet said.

    Calls made during the show to the medical examiner's office were not returned.

    The results from the autopsy are expected in a few weeks.

  3. by   UM Review RN

    #2 - Hospice was already under fear from the family of hastening her death with two morphine suppositories and couldn't operate under their normal guidelines lest they be accused of murder, which we can thank the parents for that. Ironic that the parent may have had a part of play in her death being so uncomfortable.
    Oh, and one more thing. I doubt very much that Mr. Schiavo--himself a nurse--would allow any "misconceptions" to prevent Terri from being properly medicated.

    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/...ds+legal+fight

    From the above-quoted article in the St. Petersburg Times:

    Felos said Michael Schiavo is taking time off from his job as a nurse to help prepare for his wife's death.
  4. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    Oh, and one more thing. I doubt very much that Mr. Schiavo--himself a nurse--would allow any "misconceptions" to prevent Terri from being properly medicated.
    thanks angie, for easing my mind. that's an excellent point and we all know that he was the one in charge. so now i do believe that she was properly medicated.....huge burden lifted from me. i couldn't bear to think that she didn't have her needs met for fear of a lawsuit.

    leslie
  5. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from Roland
    By witness I meant a second medical examiner appointed by the parents or the govenor not the general public. Such as the following:

    www.newsmax.com
    Friday, April 1, 2005 3:32 p.m. EST
    Schindler Coroner Nixed From Terri Autopsy

    Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, the well-known forensic pathologist and coroner of Allegheny County, Pa., told listeners of a morning radio show that he was denied permission to observe Terri Schiavo's autopsy, despite the wishes of her parents.

    A medical examiner in Pinellas County, Fla., is conducting an autopsy that could help determine what Schiavo's state of consciousness was and whether she was abused by her husband, as the Schindlers allege.

    Dr. Wecht, appearing on the syndicated "America's Morning Show with Quinn and Rose," based in Pittsburgh, said that an investigator working for the Schindlers' lawyers had called him on Thursday to see whether he would be agreeable to observing the autopsy.
    Dr. Wecht told Quinn and Rose he was certainly agreeable to that, but that several hours later he received word that the medical examiner had declined to give him permission.

    Dr. Wecht told the morning hosts that he considered this a mistake, according to Rose Somma Tennent. "He said that, if this were in [his] office, [he] would have said sure - not just because of professional courtesy, but because of the controversy sourrounding this case," Somma Tennet said.

    Calls made during the show to the medical examiner's office were not returned.

    The results from the autopsy are expected in a few weeks.
    It is too bad that they didn't allow him there. He is one of the few people I can think of whose word I would trust implicitly.
  6. by   Tweety
    Quote from mercyteapot
    It is too bad that they didn't allow him there. He is one of the few people I can think of whose word I would trust implicitly.

    I don't think so. I applaud the Pinellas County ME for keeping a private affair private and not continuing the insanity of the media circus. I've attended talks by the ME here, getting CEU's, they've solved many murder mysteries. Let them do their job. If someone wants a second opinion, let that occur after they finish their job. They don't need any bystanders from up north looking over their shoulders.

    The ME does not work for Mr. Shaivo. They are unbiased and profressional. Why is it fair for someone representing the Schindlers be there?
    Last edit by Tweety on Apr 1, '05
  7. by   mercyteapot
    "Up north"? Does that mean they would have consented if Dr. Wecht was from Birmingham, once known as "The Pittsburgh of the South"?
  8. by   ~Kitty~
    Quote from Tweety
    The ME does not work for Mr. Shaivo. They are unbiased and profressional. Why is it fair for someone representing the Schindlers be there?
    Maybe the ME golfs with Judge Greer, or Felos, or even Michael! I will remain suspicious if the autopsy conforms perfectly to Michael's crappola.
  9. by   NRSKarenRN
    Wild speculation will get us no where. Maybe the ME already arranged for a second expert to be present as I would think a reasonable, logical ME would do in such a high profile case.................but we won't know till the results are in.

    Two sides to every story---heard this side on ABC news this AM:

    Schiavo's final moments described as "calm, peaceful, and gentle"
    PINELLAS PARK-Terri Schiavo died with a stuffed kitten under her arm, her husband cradling her, spectacular floral displays giving her room a touch of glory, and insulated from the roar of the debate she had inspired just outside her hospice room doors and around the world, said attorney George Felos, who was present at the moment of death.
    "This death was not for the siblings and not for the spouse and not for the parents. This was for Terri," said Felos, who represents Michael Schiavo, the woman’s husband. "Mrs. Schiavo died a calm, peaceful, and gentle death."

    But Felos had to defend Michael Schiavo's decision not to let Bobby Schindler and Suzanne Vitadamo visit with the woman at the time of death. Terri Schiavo's parents, who found it increasingly difficult to see their daughter as she neared death, were not near the hospice at the time of death.

    Felos said his client was alarmed at a "dispute" that hospice officials said had occurred between Bobby Schindler and the police when the brother was asked to leave the room shortly before Terri Schiavo's death.

    "She had the right to have her last and final moments on this earth be experienced by a spirit of love and not of acrimony," Felos said at a news conference that Michael Schiavo did not attend. "Mr. Schiavo was not going to permit a potentially explosive situation knowing that there was just a dispute with a law-enforcement officer."...

    ....At one point, her breathing became particularly labored, but a hospice worker repositioned her and the breathing became easier....
    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...l_moments.html

    More:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/03/31/schiavo.deathbed/
    Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Apr 1, '05
  10. by   NurseFirst
    Ah, those of silver-tongue (Felos).
    I'm sorry, but Terri Schiavo has been a victim of hospice abuse.
    You are supposed to be terminally-ill (to die within 6 mos) in order to obtain hospice services, and she was not. :angryfire

    Folks may want to consider this article of an RN, albeit a Catholic RN, about
    euthanasia in this country:

    http://www.catholictradition.org/targeted.htm

    It's easy to think of withdrawing support when we decide someone no longer has a "quality of life"; the only question is--what might it take for someone to decide that that person is us, say, when we have been over-medicated?

    NurseFirst



    Quote from NRSKarenRN
    Wild speculation will get us no where. Maybe the ME already arranged for a second expert to be present as I would think a reasonable, logical ME would do in such a high profile case.................but we won't know till the results are in.

    Two sides to every story---heard this side on ABC news this AM:

    Schiavo's final moments described as "calm, peaceful, and gentle"
    PINELLAS PARK-Terri Schiavo died with a stuffed kitten under her arm, her husband cradling her, spectacular floral displays giving her room a touch of glory, and insulated from the roar of the debate she had inspired just outside her hospice room doors and around the world, said attorney George Felos, who was present at the moment of death.
    "This death was not for the siblings and not for the spouse and not for the parents. This was for Terri," said Felos, who represents Michael Schiavo, the woman’s husband. "Mrs. Schiavo died a calm, peaceful, and gentle death."

    But Felos had to defend Michael Schiavo's decision not to let Bobby Schindler and Suzanne Vitadamo visit with the woman at the time of death. Terri Schiavo's parents, who found it increasingly difficult to see their daughter as she neared death, were not near the hospice at the time of death.

    Felos said his client was alarmed at a "dispute" that hospice officials said had occurred between Bobby Schindler and the police when the brother was asked to leave the room shortly before Terri Schiavo's death.

    "She had the right to have her last and final moments on this earth be experienced by a spirit of love and not of acrimony," Felos said at a news conference that Michael Schiavo did not attend. "Mr. Schiavo was not going to permit a potentially explosive situation knowing that there was just a dispute with a law-enforcement officer."...

    ....At one point, her breathing became particularly labored, but a hospice worker repositioned her and the breathing became easier....
    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...l_moments.html

    More:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/03/31/schiavo.deathbed/
  11. by   Spidey's mom
    I read that Bobby Schindler was asked to leave so the hospice nurses could assess Terri . . . .now, that I do not get and I can see that if his sister was close to death that he wouldn't want to leave.

    We don't ask the family to leave when their loved one is near death so we can "assess" the patient. If we need to assess, we do it with the family there. They can leave if they wish but we don't ask them to leave - especially if death is imminent.

    That seems weird to me.

    steph
  12. by   Tweety
    Quote from mercyteapot
    "Up north"? Does that mean they would have consented if Dr. Wecht was from Birmingham, once known as "The Pittsburgh of the South"?



    Well from where we are everywhere is "up north". (Wonder why I phrased it like that? There's a bumper sticker here that says "I don't care how you did it up north" LOL)
  13. by   Tweety
    Quote from stevielynn
    I read that Bobby Schindler was asked to leave so the hospice nurses could assess Terri . . . .now, that I do not get and I can see that if his sister was close to death that he wouldn't want to leave.

    We don't ask the family to leave when their loved one is near death so we can "assess" the patient. If we need to assess, we do it with the family there. They can leave if they wish but we don't ask them to leave - especially if death is imminent.

    That seems weird to me.

    steph

    It doesn't take that long to assess a patient and I see nothing wrong with them asking him to leave. I sometimes ask a family member to leave, especially if they are as volatile as he has been claimed to be. They might have wanted to check if she had a BM, bathe her or turn or reposition her while they were at it. Don't be so quick to judge my friend, there are times to include the family and times to ask them to leave. Sometimes a stressed family member appreciates getting up to stretch, get some coffee, or take a little break which they wouldn't take otherwise. Granted, if a patient is taking their last few breaths that's not the time to ask them to leave, anyway what is there to assess at that point.
    Last edit by Tweety on Apr 2, '05

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