Arnold Schwartzneiger says "We need to create more nurses" - page 7

What are we objects? When he announced last night that he would be running for Governor again he said he was running again because "we need to create more ER Rooms, more hospitals, more nurses". I am... Read More

  1. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from muffylpn
    if mabey California would use LPNs in the hospitals-mabey just mabey
    No maybe about it - we do use LVN's.

    steph
  2. by   Real Nice(RN)
    hi! i just want to say something regarding arnold. i'm a filipino nurse i just recently passed the local board and there are gossips about arnold saying that he doesn't want filipino nurses to work abroad... is this true? or just another nonsense issue? and regarding to what he said well i think he should try to clear what he meant because he might hurt somebody... especially us, nurses...
  3. by   Tanker
    I just graduated in May 2005. What a long strage trip it's been. This was a career change for me. Came from the corporate world with 20 years experience. I did a paper in school on the nurse instructor shortage. This is where a main bottleneck is to get NEW nurses out there. There are about 5000 QUALIFIED applicants turned away each year. There are some really creative ideas out there that need to be implemented. A draw-back to teaching is the VAST pay cut required and sometimes additional educational requirements (PhD) to teach. From what I can tell an ADN nurse can make more $$$ than a PhD Nursing Instructor.

    I also think that nursing school needs to be re-invented. I was not overly impressed with school. I have heard the stories of many programs forcing students out, which just reduces the final output of nurses. In business, there is an addage that says "It is easier to keep a customer than get a new customer." If you (the school) has gone through the trouble of selecting these highly qualified people why not keep them and work with them instead of putting them to the streets?

    I would say the majority of the instructors I had were not great instructors. We had a handful that really wanted to teach and they were great. But, admin would put the screws to new ideas and methods ("lets just keep doing things the way we used too"). Once they have a warm body in front of the class it is like a Supreme Court nomination.

    As posted earlier, there are other problems in nursing. There needs to be an overall national plan to address this. Staffing issues can start to be addressed with more boots on the ground. But we can't get more boots because of the lack of instructors that NEED to come from the existing nurses which creates further shortages. It's a Catch-22 but not nearly as amusing. There should be nursing programs that allow folks who want to change careers but can't afford to quit work to attend part time and/or at night.

    I just realized I jumped up on the ol' box and could write for a while on this. I'll conclude with that just by throwing some money at poorly planned and implemented programs aren't going to "create" more nurses and Arnold and CA aren't going to do it by themselves.
  4. by   hope3456
    Quote from Tanker
    I just graduated in May 2005. What a long strage trip it's been. This was a career change for me. Came from the corporate world with 20 years experience. I did a paper in school on the nurse instructor shortage. This is where a main bottleneck is to get NEW nurses out there. There are about 5000 QUALIFIED applicants turned away each year. There are some really creative ideas out there that need to be implemented. A draw-back to teaching is the VAST pay cut required and sometimes additional educational requirements (PhD) to teach. From what I can tell an ADN nurse can make more $$$ than a PhD Nursing Instructor.

    I also think that nursing school needs to be re-invented. I was not overly impressed with school. I have heard the stories of many programs forcing students out, which just reduces the final output of nurses. In business, there is an addage that says "It is easier to keep a customer than get a new customer." If you (the school) has gone through the trouble of selecting these highly qualified people why not keep them and work with them instead of putting them to the streets?

    I would say the majority of the instructors I had were not great instructors. We had a handful that really wanted to teach and they were great. But, admin would put the screws to new ideas and methods ("lets just keep doing things the way we used too"). Once they have a warm body in front of the class it is like a Supreme Court nomination.

    As posted earlier, there are other problems in nursing. There needs to be an overall national plan to address this. Staffing issues can start to be addressed with more boots on the ground. But we can't get more boots because of the lack of instructors that NEED to come from the existing nurses which creates further shortages. It's a Catch-22 but not nearly as amusing. There should be nursing programs that allow folks who want to change careers but can't afford to quit work to attend part time and/or at night.

    I just realized I jumped up on the ol' box and could write for a while on this. I'll conclude with that just by throwing some money at poorly planned and implemented programs aren't going to "create" more nurses and Arnold and CA aren't going to do it by themselves.
    Excellent Post!! You definately hit the nail on the head! I also just graduated from a RN program, and of course I cannot speak for everybody, but I thought it was two years of BS. I am also sitting here questioning whether or not I really learned or retained from the program what I need to know.

    I can give a reason for there not being enough instructors, besides the inequality in pay. Many nurses I know, myself included, have bad memories of our instructors. I have often asked myself why anyone would want to be one. I don't mean to generalize, but the clinical instructors I had seemed to be overly interested with wanting to "weed out" and fail students - and I saw it happen, for very unfair reasons. They really didn't seem to want to teach anything. I did not come away from my medsurg clinicals with very good experiences - basically b/c of the instructors I had. I probably would have dropped out if it wasn't for the RN's that I know encouraging me and telling me they didn't like clinicals either but they don't matter much anyway, as long as you get a passing grade. what matters is that you can get through the program and pass the nclex.

    Again, not to generalize and maybe I just had bad luck. I did have some good instructors to, but I am all for the structure of nsg school being revamped.

    Another problem w/ nsg school that needs to be addressed is the high attrition rates. I believe my class lost 30% of it's students from start to finish. recently, I met a RN who just moved here from Cali and he said that his program lost over 60%! He said it was like the tv show Survivor - someone was dropped every week. What is up with that?
  5. by   nitngale927
    I think it was a language issue. Nevertheless I think this is a campaign tactic and for Arnold acting was a better career choice than politics.

    nitngale927

    Quote from jnette
    Ditto.

    Don't care for the man at all, but I do give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Language issues.. even if pre written, he's not the kind to stick to a written speech.

    As far as running again.. he's done too much "running off at the mouth"...don't think he'll get too far this time around. :chuckle
    :imbar :imbar :imbar
  6. by   tridil2000
    Quote from Hellllllo Nurse
    Exactly. Only, there's no problem attracting people to nursing, is keeping them in nursing once they find out what it's REALLY like.
    :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:

    nuff said!!
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Read our lips Arnie, et al.

    The issue is RETENTION, not just RECRUITMENT. It's been this way for a LONG time now.

    really, nuff said.
  8. by   gypsyatheart
    Quote from shodobe
    I don't think people should be blaming him because of a misunderstanding of the English language. Come on now! He has, or supposed to have, some good people working for him. Obviously not. They should be checking all of his speeches and press releases before it makes him look like an idiot.What he is doing is far too late and honestly I don't know what his agenda is. He has constantly alienated himself from a variety of groups and he digs his grave everyday deeper. I, for one, can't understand why he is wasting his and Californias time in running again. I just hope someone jumps in there and gives him a run for his money.
    :yeahthat: Excellent post, really hit the nail on the head!
  9. by   gypsyatheart
    To Tanker and hope 3456,
    Nursing school and nursing as a career are two completely different things. Sure there are lots of people who want (or think they want) to be nurses. Part of why so-called "qualified" applicants get turned away, and why so many don't make it out of nursing school is b/c they weren't gonna make it in the field. Nursing school is partly a weeding out process, if you will. This was common knowledge when I was in college. Yeah, some of the instructors were hard @$$'s and a couple shouldn't have even been teaching, but the bottom line was, if you couldn't make it in school you definitely were not gonna make it "out there". We lost people, every class does, but those people never would have made it.... Why? Because that's how tough nursing is! Because nursing school only prepares you to learn how to be a nurse. Because nursing, in and of itself is brutal. And that is why we have a "shortage"....it's tough to make it in nursing, a huge percentage of people don't stick w/nursing after the first year, many more leave after several years, d/t burnout or physical injury/abuse dumped on them over the years. That's what good 'ol Arnie doesn't understand, nor will he ever....his head is too high, in the clouds....
  10. by   usmctanker
    Quote from moondancer
    To Tanker and hope 3456,
    Nursing school and nursing as a career are two completely different things. Sure there are lots of people who want (or think they want) to be nurses. Part of why so-called "qualified" applicants get turned away, and why so many don't make it out of nursing school is b/c they weren't gonna make it in the field. Nursing school is partly a weeding out process, if you will. This was common knowledge when I was in college. Yeah, some of the instructors were hard @$$'s and a couple shouldn't have even been teaching, but the bottom line was, if you couldn't make it in school you definitely were not gonna make it "out there". We lost people, every class does, but those people never would have made it.... Why? Because that's how tough nursing is! Because nursing school only prepares you to learn how to be a nurse. Because nursing, in and of itself is brutal. And that is why we have a "shortage"....it's tough to make it in nursing, a huge percentage of people don't stick w/nursing after the first year, many more leave after several years, d/t burnout or physical injury/abuse dumped on them over the years. That's what good 'ol Arnie doesn't understand, nor will he ever....his head is too high, in the clouds....
    I will give you that. However, if we as a profession are in need of turning
    out hardened practitioners maybe we should send student nurses to Marine
    Corps boot camp. My point is that, educational process is to educate not eliminate. Over the last 28 years I have often seen examples of how Nurses
    eat their young. As an instructor I often see other educators blame the poor
    performance of their students for the poor quality of their teaching skills.
    Right now there is such a shortage of Nursing instructors in this country that
    anyone with the requirements is hired and seldom fired. Warm body syndrome, as we see on the night shift in most acute care settings.
  11. by   papawjohn
    Hey Y'all

    Since the topic's turned to NrsgSchool, let me throw in a few thoughts.

    First, I defined my NrsgSchool experience (ADN, '78-'81) as 90% indoctrination and 10% education. By that I mean that it was more important to the instructors to teach values and behaviors than facts.

    This drives some 'capital P' Professionals nuts. They see that the Physical Therapy people now require a Masters as 'entry to practice' and that there are still thousands of LPNs graduated every year (they were s'posed to DISAPPEAR!! Didn't they get the memo?) and Respiratory Therapists now have Associate Degrees and they think Nurses need at least a BSN to become a 'professional' nurse. They want Nursing students to take Philosophy and Literature courses!!!

    Those are the people who "planned" the educational system that all but the oldest of us went thru. Does it sound realistic to anybody here?

    But it seems reasonable to me to teach 'values' and behaviors in NrsgSchool instead of expecting us to learn all about Pathophys and Pharmocology. It's not so hard to learn the 'facts'. The difference between a 'good' nurse (substitute whatever word you like--'strong', 'effective', whatever) and a rotten one (the one you HATE to get report from) in not smarts.

    I recently had a Pt die from a hemolytic blood reaction. Every LPN and every nursing student would have known to stop the transfusion as the Temp went to 104. The nurse who did that is still a queen bee in our ICU and signs her name with BSN ARNP CCRN behind it. It's values and decision-making skills she is deficient in not facts.

    And it is 'values' and behaviors that get people tossed out of NrsgSchool.
    (Granted, there are some that can't learn the elementary anatomy, bio-chemistry and fail on academics.) And that's as it ought to be.

    I'll stop before I start making political BS about 'values'....

    Made It!!
    Papaw John
  12. by   TLC RN
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Read our lips Arnie, et al.

    The issue is RETENTION, not just RECRUITMENT. It's been this way for a LONG time now.

    really, nuff said.
    :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:
  13. by   911fltrn
    Now I may be wrong about this so no flames please. I seem to recall previous posts on this site in regards to Govenor S. If my memory serves me correctly Arnold has fought against the people voted mandatory staffing law at every turn. The fact that he says we now need more nurses is such a croc of you know what. After he loses in court a couple of times suddenly he is on the side of nurses. I for one do not believe it.

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