Are We Really a Profession? - page 4

In reading the literature lately, I've come across several definitions and evolutions of the term "profession," and have since conceded that based on those accepted defintions, a profession we are... Read More

  1. by   MollyMo
    Business: occupation, work, or trade in which a person is engaged; a specific occupation or pursuit.


    Occupation: an activity that serves as one's regular source of livelihood.



    By those definitions, nursing is not a profession. Nursing is a business.


    Suzy, I didn't realize I was missing you, shay and heather until a couple of days ago. Glad you're here.
    Last edit by MollyMo on Oct 16, '02
  2. by   Q.
    Originally posted by MollyMo
    Business: occupation, work, or trade in which a person is engaged; a specific occupation or pursuit.


    Occupation: an activity that serves as one's regular source of livelihood.



    By those definitions, nursing is not a profession. Nursing is a business.


    Suzy, I didn't realize I was missing you, shay and heather until a couple of days ago. Glad you're here.
    That's why I think "Nursing Business" would be more appropriate, sad to say.

    Let's not forget that the criteria I stumbled upon was in the Nursing literature, so this is what is currently accepted in our own.........business.

    If anything, I think that we aught to look at those criteria and try to accomplish those things, specifically, controlling our education and our work environment.

    In reference to Fergus, no, those other professions listed don't "control" their environment in that they are subject to the highs and lows of patients or criminals, etc, but they DO control their scheduling, etc. Don't they?
  3. by   fergus51
    No, cops don't control scheduling, and most docs don't have a choice about when I wake them to discuss a patient either. They also don't control their wages anymore than nurses do (at least not here).
  4. by   Q.
    No, but the docs control WHO is on call and WHEN. You don't have laypeople deciding when a doc is on call, do they? If the cops don't control scheduling, who does?
  5. by   rebelwaclause
    pro-fes-sion
    pronunciation: pr&-'fe-sh&n
    function: noun
    etymology: middle english professioun, from old french profession, from late latin & latin; late latin profession-, professio, from latin, public declaration, from profiteri
    date: 13th century
    1 : the act of taking the vows of a religious community
    2 : an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith, or opinion : protestation
    3 : an avowed religious faith
    4 a : a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation b : a principal calling, vocation, or employment c : the whole body of persons engaged in a calling

    not only are we a affiliated with a profession, we have a :

    trade
    pronunciation: 'trad
    function: noun
    etymology: middle english, from middle low german; akin to old high german trata track, course, old english tredan to tread
    date: 14th century
    3 a : the business or work in which one engages regularly : occupation b : an occupation requiring manual or mechanical skill : craft c : the persons engaged in an occupation, business, or industry

    case management was hard to explain to laymen when asked what i did for a living. so i answered "i'm a nurse by trade, working within an insurance company reviewing requests for treatment and hospitalization." i still got blank looks. lv...how do you explain that one?

    :d
  6. by   rebelwaclause
    We always need a union, so we can pay to practice our trade sillies!

    (Ta-heee)
  7. by   Q.
    A calling?! CALLING?!! Maybe I just wanted to be a nurse because I liked science, a bio major was too difficult and I liked Women's Health, and needed a job.

    I'm not sure I like nursing associated with a "calling." To me that infers that we shouldn't demand higher pay and better conditions. Being a nun is a calling. Not being a nurse.
  8. by   LasVegasRN
    When people ask what I do as a case manager, I explain that I use my nursing EXPERTISE & KNOWLEDGE to make sure our clients receive optimal care for their health by collaborating with the physicians, therapists, insurance company and their employer to make sure ALL of their needs are met.

    HOW I do all these things takes a longer explanation, but, if they are like my Dad, they end up saying, "So you're not a nurse anymore, right?"
  9. by   rebelwaclause
    But if you think about it Suzy...Some missed their calling by becoming nurses. How many people do you know that SHOULD NOT be nurses, but would make wonderful chef's or attorneys or something, ANYTHING other than a nurse...?!?!?!

    (hahahahahaha....)
  10. by   semstr
    A calling? Who called? Never heard her/ him.
    Now, that makes me pretty sick and that is not professional to me!
    The "calling" were for the nuns, but not for me a xx-years trained professional nurse!!
  11. by   MICU RN
    Yes, nursing is regulated like other professions. However, lets look at our origin in healthcare and where the unversities are trying to bring it. The push for a one entry point makes sense and would put us on par with other professions as for as becoming college educated professionals. But the other major problem is that nursing still lacks so much autonomy especially compared to traditional professions. In reality, we are still functioning as workers who carry out the physical aspects of a medical plan which is totally under the control of the physician. So it is hard to justify the role as a true independent profession. I think when we go to a university and receive a four year degree, which requires plenty of hard work to obtain, we natural expect to be treated as professionals; however, the role of most bedside nurses doesn't really require that much education to do the job correctly. What I am getting at is that we may be trying to make bedside nursing into something it was never intended to be. Now, some will say "what about advance nurse practices such as NP'S and CRNA'S? The reality is that in that role they are basically practicing medicine not nursing, all be it under the supervision of a physician. Another major problem is this notion by hospital admin.s that one nurse fits all and therefore we should all be paid about the same. In the state run hospital I work in the RN's that work in the outpatient doctor clinics make the same as I do and I have only worked in critical care areas. The knowledge base required to work in a ICU or ER is very exstensive and should require a min. of a 4 yr. degree, but I find it insulting to pay a RNs in a clinic functioning at a LPN level at best the same amount as critical care nurses. And that is another reason I don't consider bedside nursing a true profession. When I worked in one of the busiest ER's in the nation and we worked our asses off, we got paid the same as all the other RN's throughout the hospital. Now the ER certified docs made on average about twice as much as primary care docs. They were being recognized not only by having a cert. but in financial terms for their specialized knowledge. Many told me they would never work in the ER with all the stress and workload if they were not being compensated so well. Why should they? If they could find an easier job and get paid the same as the doctors who are specialized and work harder. So that problem needs to be adressed in nursing, the sooner the better.
  12. by   fergus51
    Originally posted by Susy K
    No, but the docs control WHO is on call and WHEN. You don't have laypeople deciding when a doc is on call, do they? If the cops don't control scheduling, who does?
    Whoever is in charge, just like the Nurse managers controls ours. I have a lot more flexibility in scheduling compared to my dad the ex cop. The docs do control who is on call, but I am in a smallish town and a lot of the times, they are not able to do that because they are in short supply and if their patient gets admitted I call them. Control is all relative. A lot of what nurses ****** about having to put up with, they don't actually have to put up with, they choose to. I honestly feel I have more control over my career and its conditions than my father ever had. As for docs, it's iffy. The governement here didn't give in to their demands either.
  13. by   flowerchild
    We nurses didn't question weather or not we were professionals until after hospitals became a business.
    15 years ago, other professionals questioned it, but not the nurses. We knew who we were and where we stood. It was docs, profs that I remember doing the questioning....they said that one must have at least a masters degree to be considered a professional. I their opinion, it was as cut and dry as that!

    I am still a professional and always will be a professional registered nurse. If you are not in a position that you feel comfortable with yourself using professional to describe yourself b/c you are a nurse, then perhaps you should do what ever it takes to change that. Can we nurses tolerate this without a fight? According to this debate there are many of you who are saying that you are not a professional. That's really very sad, imo.
    I guess I'm old fashioned, nursing is my calling, and the nursing process is part of me, my work, and my everyday life...it's ingrained. And yes, you can use the nursing process to do anything...and I do...but, do you know of any non nurses who use it like we do? NO! There is a organization called Baldridge, it has copied our nursing process, they call it PDSA I believe, it is a way for corporations, and other ventures to win an award for "Excellence". It is very elite and extremely rigid. IT IS THE NURSING PROCESS. To get a Baldridge award is a huge honor for a corp. There are a very FEW who meet the criteria. Nurses meet the criteria everyday, when given the chance.

    I had to go to college to get my degree that allowed me to become a nurse. The level and intensity of education I received vs those of other degrees is not even comparable. The nurses had to study constantly. The people in my support courses that were not in nursing always commented on how much we had to study and how thick our books were as compared to what they were doing. Yes I believe that my course of study was advanced. At the time it was said that if you could get through the nursing program you could get through law school...meaning that the intensity and level of cognition and dedication that was required was similar.

    I base my opinion on personal experience. I know I'm being far from scientific in my approach toward this "debate" but, I thought perhaps my post will win a point or two for my side. LOL.
    I AM A NURSE THEREFORE I AM A PROFESSIONAL.
    Last edit by flowerchild on Oct 16, '02

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