Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally? - page 8

I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true.... Read More

  1. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from GM2RN
    "Highly uneducated and paranoid," hmmm!

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you have no idea how educated your so-called "anti-vaxxers" are. But lets say for discussions sake that some--not many--are not as well educated as you. How do you account for the many nurses, doctors, scientists, and other very highly educated people--many that are more educated than those on this board--that refuse to vaccinate their children/families and stand somewhere on the side of the fence as the "anti-vaxxers?"
    The highly educated luckily are few and far between. These anti-vaccine proponents deny the evidence and hence why these same people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

    As far as the courts awarding vaccine injury cases: the courts are not trained in medicine and often a jury trial will rule in the favor of the plaintiff even if they don't believe that the vaccine or drug etc was the cause of injury because they feel sympathy for defendant.
    I don't know of any recent court cases in the US where the court has ruled vaccines as the cause of autism. That link has been completely debunked.
  2. by   kcochrane
    Quote from GM2RN
    I'm sure that at least some of those who CAN do what you suggested, have. But you are making the leap that none have, and you are also assuming that everyone can, which is not logical.
    If they truly believed it would harm or kill their child, yeah they probably would have found a way. And I can say that as someone who has stood in line trying to figure out how to buy food for my kids. If it involves your children you will find a way.
  3. by   GM2RN
    Quote from kcochrane
    If they truly believed it would harm or kill their child, yeah they probably would have found a way. And I can say that as someone who has stood in line trying to figure out how to buy food for my kids. If it involves your children you will find a way.
    That's quite the judgement there. As the mother of a child currently fighting brain cancer, I can relate to doing what CAN be done to keep their child alive, but sometimes it isn't possible. The most likely form of treatment for my son's cancer costs minimally $250,000 out of pocket, and while I'd do most anything to get him that treatment, it just isn't within my reach. That's reality for many people.
  4. by   kcochrane
    Quote from GM2RN
    That's quite the judgement there. As the mother of a child currently fighting brain cancer, I can relate to doing what CAN be done to keep their child alive, but sometimes it isn't possible. The most likely form of treatment for my son's cancer costs minimally $250,000 out of pocket, and while I'd do most anything to get him that treatment, it just isn't within my reach. That's reality for many people.
    Sorry, wasn't implying that in your case. This was in regards to the vaccine issue. If someone truly believed that a vaccine would harm or kill their child they wouldn't just give in so quick. It is totally reachable for people to change their circumstances in life to avoid having the gov't tell them what to do. Coming up with $250k is whole other story. Even at my level that would be impossible. Again sorry and hope I didn't make you feel like you weren't doing all you could.
  5. by   BostonFNP
    Interesting blog addressing many of the common arguments we see on the issue.

    Another Excuse from Anti-Vaxxers? | Medpage Today
  6. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from KatieMI
    Recently in Australia, parents lost their rights to receive goverment child support subsidies if they refuse vaccinations. It worked as a miracle. Parents of 200000+ kids suddenly forgot about their personal views and their uncompatible incongruencies with scientific facts and/or magically overcame their concerns and fears when they just got to know a simple, unambigous thing: no jab, no muneys on account, period.

    2, More Children Have Been Vaccinated In Australia Following New Policies | IFLScience
    Control the money, control the food and water, control travel, clothing, shelter, and other things we consider essential and you control the people. The article says Big Brother expanded the Registry of who is and isn't vaccinated. So BB got bigger.

    That says nothing about the efficacy and safety of vaccines, only that Big Brother has a stranglehold on essentials and has knowledge of every time you go to the potty, so to speak. And that most people are too busy scrounging to survive to delve beyond every word out of the CDC's mouth. Such closed-mindedness is really scary. Sort of like people who didn't immediately want to go to war after 911 - these were labeled unAmerican, almost traitors. No time for cooler heads, we have to go kill them because they killed us. Never mind wanting to be sure, to take a moment and really figure out what was going on. We just have to get our fighter jets up there and go kill somebody.

    The article didn't elaborate but said that other measures had also been put into place, so tightening money eligibility was not the only factor in the increased vaccination rate.

    It eliminated the conscientious objector status, meaning "Your religious beliefs be damned". Can you choke that down, America?

    If these vaccines are so effective, why do you need other peoples' kids to get them? Just make sure your own do. Yes, I know about herd effectiveness - and herd mentality.

    On HPV - teach your kids abstinence before marriage and monogamy in marriage and you will eliminate many, many cases of HPV.

    You do recognize that statistics can be twisted to say different things, right?
    Also that Big Pharma gets rich from these vaccines?

    1984 is well-established here now. George Orwell was right. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

    Lord Jesus, come back quickly.
    Last edit by Kooky Korky on Oct 26, '17
  7. by   klone
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    If these vaccines are so effective, why do you need other peoples' kids to get them? Just make sure your own do. Yes, I know about herd effectiveness - and herd mentality..
    If you know about herd immunity, then why the heck are you asking that question? Once again, I'm flabbergasted that we're having this conversation with another HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL.

    Not all people can get all vaccines, due to health conditions that make vaccines contraindicated. Infants typically do not start getting vaccinated until 2 months old, and aren't fully protected until a year.

    THOSE are the reasons why herd immunity is important.

    No need to invoke Jesus in every post you make. Jesus has nothing to do with it.
  8. by   BostonFNP
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    If these vaccines are so effective, why do you need other peoples' kids to get them? Just make sure your own do. Yes, I know about herd effectiveness - and herd mentality.
    Explain to us the concept of herd immunity as you know it.

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    On HPV - teach your kids abstinence before marriage and monogamy in marriage and you will eliminate many, many cases of HPV.
    Teaching of abstinence and getting a vaccine are not mutually exclusive. Plus, have you read the research on abstinence effectiveness?

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    You do recognize that statistics can be twisted to say different things, right? Also that Big Pharma gets rich from these vaccines?
    What happened to the study that was funded by the anti-vaccine groups including SafeMinds?

    And "BigPharma" makes far less money on vaccines than they do on any other pharmaceutical product.
  9. by   JenTheSchoolRN
    Quote from Kooky Korky

    On HPV - teach your kids abstinence before marriage and monogamy in marriage and you will eliminate many, many cases of HPV.
    I hope abstinence involves abstaining from any type of skin-to-skin intimate contact. Because one does not have to have vaginal sex to contract HPV. It can also be spread during oral and anal sex and as a person who attended a Catholic school that taught abstinence, there was plenty of both of these other two types of sex going on during high school. Because, unfortunately, many of my classmates told me they were still virgins and "doing it in the butt" didn't count. Abstinence means different things to different people.

    This isn't meant to be a dig, to be honest, just a glimpse into our world. I teach sex education and the world "virgin" is different for everyone. Virginity is a values word that is linked directly with ones beliefs. (I don't actually use it is while teaching sex education because of this - facts only.)

    On this topic, I'm of the age where the HPV vaccine was just coming out and I was still under the cut-off age (26). Given that I had not yet become sexually active, my mom begged me to get this vaccine at my college health center. It was not covered by insurance at the time and she paid out of pocket for it for me ($200/per shot!). My mother was adopted and does not know her medical history, so she saw this as a chance to help me avoid cancer in the future.

    A few years later, I had a friend diagnosed with cervical cancer at age 27. She did not get the vaccine. She is doing well now, but it was a long road.
  10. by   Farawyn
    Quote from klone
    If you know about herd immunity, then why the heck are you asking that question? Once again, I'm flabbergasted that we're having this conversation with another HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL.

    Not all people can get all vaccines, due to health conditions that make vaccines contraindicated. Infants typically do not start getting vaccinated until 2 months old, and aren't fully protected until a year.

    THOSE are the reasons why herd immunity is important.

    No need to invoke Jesus in every post you make. Jesus has nothing to do with it.
    I'm not sure Kooky is a health care professional, which is why I rarely take her posts with the same weight as other's.
  11. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Control the money, control the food and water, control travel, clothing, shelter, and other things we consider essential and you control the people. The article says Big Brother expanded the Registry of who is and isn't vaccinated. So BB got bigger.

    That says nothing about the efficacy and safety of vaccines, only that Big Brother has a stranglehold on essentials and has knowledge of every time you go to the potty, so to speak. And that most people are too busy scrounging to survive to delve beyond every word out of the CDC's mouth. Such closed-mindedness is really scary. Sort of like people who didn't immediately want to go to war after 911 - these were labeled unAmerican, almost traitors. No time for cooler heads, we have to go kill them because they killed us. Never mind wanting to be sure, to take a moment and really figure out what was going on. We just have to get our fighter jets up there and go kill somebody.

    The article didn't elaborate but said that other measures had also been put into place, so tightening money eligibility was not the only factor in the increased vaccination rate.

    It eliminated the conscientious objector status, meaning "Your religious beliefs be damned". Can you choke that down, America?

    If these vaccines are so effective, why do you need other peoples' kids to get them? Just make sure your own do. Yes, I know about herd effectiveness - and herd mentality.

    On HPV - teach your kids abstinence before marriage and monogamy in marriage and you will eliminate many, many cases of HPV.

    You do recognize that statistics can be twisted to say different things, right?
    Also that Big Pharma gets rich from these vaccines?

    1984 is well-established here now. George Orwell was right. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

    Lord Jesus, come back quickly.
    And you just added more evidence for the topic of this thread.

    By the way abstinence only sex education has shown not to work. In the states/places that implemented it they had higher than average teen pregnancies and std rates.

    HPV vaccines also can help infants and healthcare workers indirectly from developing HPV infections.

    Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S
    Abstinence Programs Don't Stop Teen Pregnancies Or STDs : Shots - Health News : NPR
  12. by   Farawyn
    Quote from ThePrincessBride
    Yup. There are also studies that suggest that older men are more likely to produce children with autism due to lower quality sperm. It has nothing to do with vaccines.
    Define "quality" sperm.
    Asking for a friend.

    Love this thread.
  13. by   klone
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    On HPV - teach your kids abstinence before marriage and monogamy in marriage and you will eliminate many, many cases of HPV..
    Oh, ****! How did I miss this gem.

    Attitudes like this literally make me feel sick to my stomach.

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