Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally? - page 6

I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true.... Read More

  1. by   RunnerNurse09
    Quote from wtbcrna
    If your children or you weren't required to get any vaccinations even though they were recommended would you still get them or pick and choose?
    Absolutely. In fact, I think autism and the vaccine debate was a hot topic when my kids were small and they were vaccinated. I never even thought about if it was mandatory or not, wasn't an issue for me.
  2. by   BostonFNP
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    Yes I understand this. However the effectiveness of the flu vaccine vs some others are quite different, which is why I feel the way I do for for my own vaccination choices.
    I don't disagree with you that the efficacy of the IIV is less than that of some other vaccines (and the NNT is higher), that being said, it has a well-demonstrated safety profile as well.
  3. by   RunnerNurse09
    Quote from BostonFNP
    I don't disagree with you that the efficacy of the IIV is less than that of some other vaccines (and the NNT is higher), that being said, it has a well-demonstrated safety profile as well.
    I agree with you as well. I honestly think the biggest fault I find is in the way it is marketed. patients should be aware of the statistics on how effective it may be. some people actually think it is almost fully protective, and then when they get the flu, they think they got it from the vaccine, which isn't the case.
  4. by   klone
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    patients should be aware of the statistics on how effective it may be. some people actually think it is almost fully protective, and then when they get the flu, they think they got it from the vaccine, which isn't the case.
    All of that information is available on the VIS, which, by federal law, all patients should receive prior to getting the vaccine.

    And as nurses, it is our responsibility, before giving the vaccine, to explain that all to them, including the fact that one cannot get influenza from the injectable vaccine.

    The flu vaccine isn't "marketed" per se. Any information that people receive about the flu shot, is likely what their physician and/or nurse is telling them. Which is why some of the misinformation you wrote in your previous posts is somewhat alarming to many of us, because it suggests a lack of understanding of what the flu shot is (and isn't).
  5. by   RunnerNurse09
    Again, I have never misinformed anyone about the flu shot.
  6. by   ThePrincessBride
    Quote from wtbcrna
    ASD is most likely genetic in nature with multiple genes involved.
    Causes - Autism Society

    It is unlikely that anti-vaccine crowd will ever disappear. They have literally been around for over 150 years.
    History of Anti-vaccination Movements | History of Vaccines

    The only way to reduce the anti-vaccine/conspiracy theory people is to prioritize science in our public schools and government.
    Yup. There are also studies that suggest that older men are more likely to produce children with autism due to lower quality sperm. It has nothing to do with vaccines.
  7. by   brownbook
    I listen to Doctor Radio on Sirius XM. These are scientists/doctor who are certified, bonafied, medical scientist and doctors with many many years of practice and education. I'm sorry but I CANNOT abide lay people, and even worse nurses or other doctors who think these dedicated scientists/doctors are what????? Lying, have an evil plot to kill all humans? It brings me to tears to think of all the years these scientists have dedicated towards their specialty to have some layperson not believe them!

    It has been proven, studied, evidences based practice, that even if the flu shot is not 100% effective and or not exactly designed for the type of flu virus, even if you still do get the flu, your symptoms will be milder than people who did not get the vaccine.

    I am as serious as a heart attack....I think people watch "it's the end of the world as we know it movies", (which by the way I love), about GMO foods turning people into zombies or vampires, a vaccination gone wrong turning children into killers, mutant ants escaping from a scientific laboratory and devouring people, etc. and come away thinking....."that could happen, scientists don't really know everything" etc.
  8. by   Richard Wolfe
    I know that many vaccines work, but I also know that many do not. You can discredit the flu shot with research from the CDC. However, I still get the flu shot every year (mainly because I'm forced to at work).

    People tend to take an extreme perspective on every issue. With vaccines you have one group that swears all vaccines are effective while another group wouldn't take the shot if their life depended on it (which sometimes it does). My advice would be to take all of the old school vaccines and do a lot of research before you let someone inject you with a vaccine that has been on the market for less than ten years.
  9. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    If your referring to me, i never said i was anti-vaccine. My children are up to date on all of their vaccines. I am required to receive a round of vaccines again for employment purposes in the future even though I show immunity for things such as MMR and that's fine. I routinely give patients their flu shots. I have never said to any of those patients "hey, would you like to know how I feel about the flu shot?" I love science and have always excelled in it. My husband has never gotten the flu shot by his own choice. If tomorrow he decided to get it, well good for him. I will be required to get it next year, and that's fine.
    If you are immune to measles, mumps, and rubella, why is it fine to have to get that vaccine again?
  10. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Texasholdem
    I know that many vaccines work, but I also know that many do not. You can discredit the flu shot with research from the CDC. However, I still get the flu shot every year (mainly because I'm forced to at work).

    People tend to take an extreme perspective on every issue. With vaccines you have one group that swears all vaccines are effective while another group wouldn't take the shot if their life depended on it (which sometimes it does). My advice would be to take all of the old school vaccines and do a lot of research before you let someone inject you with a vaccine that has been on the market for less than ten years.
    That is a bunch of nonsense. You would give up an average 60% chance to not get the flu because you don't understand the cdc reports. Why don't you try and descredit the flu vaccine from the cdc website.
    As I have already stated newer vaccines are actually safer than older vaccines because they contain significantly less antigens.

    Flu Vaccine Effectiveness: Questions and Answers for Health Professionals | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
  11. by   hherrn
    Quote from Texasholdem
    I know that many vaccines work, but I also know that many do not. You can discredit the flu shot with research from the CDC. However, I still get the flu shot every year (mainly because I'm forced to at work).

    People tend to take an extreme perspective on every issue. With vaccines you have one group that swears all vaccines are effective while another group wouldn't take the shot if their life depended on it (which sometimes it does). My advice would be to take all of the old school vaccines and do a lot of research before you let someone inject you with a vaccine that has been on the market for less than ten years.
    While you mentioned that you are required to get the shot, you don't mention whether you are a nurse. Or more to the point, whether you are in any position to influence anybody's healthcare choices.



    "A lot of research" is done, by trained scientists before these vaccines are approved. This is not to be confused with a Google search, which can be done by anybody with two fingers. If the result of your research is that "You can discredit the flu shot with research from the CDC. ", then I am going to take a wild guess you are not in the first category.
  12. by   hherrn
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    And I respect YOUR views, opinion, beliefs. Aren't nurses supposed to respect the autonomy of others? So shouldn't you respect mine?
    Respecting an individual's autonomy and respecting their views are completely unrelated. I would hope that you could think of some views and opinions that are simply not worthy of respect.

    Your understanding of the science behind a given procedure or medication are absolutely critical in the patient care you will deliver as a Nurse Practitioner. What you understand, or believe, will absolutely effect how your patients will make decisions.

    For example- One of the docs in my ER has concerns over the hazards of TPA- more so than the other docs. When he is done explaining the risks/benefits of TPA, a lower percentage of his patients get TPA than with other docs. As it happens, he was ahead of the trend in reducing use of TPA, and most of the others have caught up.

    The point is that his research led him down a certain path, and it affect the choices of his patients.

    As an NP, you will have huge impact on the decisions of your patients. Your "views" will guide your advice to them.
  13. by   RunnerNurse09
    Quote from hherrn
    Respecting an individual's autonomy and respecting their views are completely unrelated. I would hope that you could think of some views and opinions that are simply not worthy of respect.

    Your understanding of the science behind a given procedure or medication are absolutely critical in the patient care you will deliver as a Nurse Practitioner. What you understand, or believe, will absolutely effect how your patients will make decisions.

    For example- One of the docs in my ER has concerns over the hazards of TPA- more so than the other docs. When he is done explaining the risks/benefits of TPA, a lower percentage of his patients get TPA than with other docs. As it happens, he was ahead of the trend in reducing use of TPA, and most of the others have caught up.

    The point is that his research led him down a certain path, and it affect the choices of his patients.

    As an NP, you will have huge impact on the decisions of your patients. Your "views" will guide your advice to them.
    So then the doctor you refer to is letting his patients make the decision based on risk benefit...isnt that what a provider is supposed to do ethically, isnt that what patient centered care is? When you listen to the drug commercials on television and they list the possible side effects to medications, do you think it makes patients more or less inclined to ask for them? Informed consent is one thing, scare tactics are another. I am not sure which you are speaking.
    I never, ever said I thought the flu shot was harmful, and I dont know how words are being twisted.
    1) the flu shot can be, and is, beneficial. I personally do not feel it is effective enough based on what the CDC states for me personally to get it UNLESS i am required to do so. THAT is my choice.
    2) I would never talk a patient out if getting vaccinated, or any other treatment. If a patient directly asked me the statistics on the flu shot, I would show them the stats from the CDC, and advise them as per the CDC is it highly recommended. Period. I would never advise otherwise unless the recommendations changed.
    No doctor or any provider should be hiding information on the risk vs. benefit of a procedure.

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