Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally? - page 5

I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true.... Read More

  1. by   klone
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    Show me the statistics that say the flu vaccine is 100% effective. And it is opinion. It's my opinion that the flu vaccine is not worth getting if I am not asked by an employer to do so.
    No one has EVER claimed the flu vaccine is 100% effective. It IS more effective at preventing influenza than NOT getting the vaccine.
  2. by   BostonFNP
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    Show me the statistics that say the flu vaccine is 100% effective. And it is opinion. It's my opinion that the flu vaccine is not worth getting if I am not asked by an employer to do so.
    You are using a logistical fallacy here. Nothing is 100%; no science says anything is 100%. That doesn't mean it is not important or significant.
  3. by   wtbcrna
    I can't find the link right now, but the new vaccine schedule even though it has more individual shots actually contain about 10x less antigens than the shots/vaccines we had as children. The vaccines today are much more selective.

    https://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-a...neschedule.pdf
  4. by   KatieMI
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    You are so damn hostile.
    If you only once see that half-eviscerated woman asking her oncologist "why did you treat me if you knew that I MIGHT be suffering like this to the end of my life?" or a 5 years-old writing, in a huge wobbling kiddish letters, a note to Santa asking him to please let grandma (who is hooked to vent, drips and artificial kidney after pneumonia brought up by flu and pneumococcus) come home for just one day on Christmas instead of all other gifts, or a man who attempted suicide because of pain brought by shingles but ended up with broken neck (so, now he's a quad and the pain is still here with him), you'll have very little warm feelings for anyone doubting something that could reliably diminish risk of all those, and more of them, ever happening.

    And, yeah, what you choose for yourself and for your family matters for me and my family, as well as for others around you. I spent a year praying God every day so that no person like you accidentally appears near my child who was born very premature. She couldn't be vaccinated for medical reasons for longer than "normal" kids and a "common", "natural" measles could easily kill her, just like it almost killed me in my childhood and left me with severe asthma.

    You cannot live in society and reap its benefits while being free from responsibilities it applies. If you want to risk your own life and those of your loved ones, please for all means go for it - but do it alone and do not put others in danger. You do not know near whom you stay in line in amusement park and then share hotel room, pool or airplane. Chances are, it is a baby for whom your nursing colleagues beat chances of "living" vs. "dying", or someone who is living with another person's heart beating in his chest. Do these people deserve to die from measles of chicken pox (preemies and transplant recipients have complicated issues with live vaccines) just because someone else "made a choice for family"?
    Last edit by KatieMI on Oct 22, '17
  5. by   RunnerNurse09
    Quote from BostonFNP
    You are using a logistical fallacy here. Nothing is 100%; no science says anything is 100%. That doesn't mean it is not important or significant.
    Yes I understand this. However the effectiveness of the flu vaccine vs some others are quite different, which is why I feel the way I do for for my own vaccination choices.
  6. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    Show me the statistics that say the flu vaccine is 100% effective. And it is opinion. It's my opinion that the flu vaccine is not worth getting if I am not asked by an employer to do so.
    I never claimed the flu vaccine is 100% effective, and no general population vaccine is likely to ever be 100% effective. The only type of vaccine that would likely ever be 100% effective is based on individual genes.

    I'm hardly being hostile. I cannot help it that you refuse to believe in the science behind the flu vaccine. There are thousands of legitimate sources that will show that getting the flu vaccine saves thousands of lives and billions of dollars in the US alone each year, but somehow your "opinion" is a legitimate as all the scientific data?.
  7. by   klone
    Quote from wtbcrna
    I'm hardly being hostile.
    I'm pretty sure she was talking to me on that one.
  8. by   wtbcrna
    Here is the question no one has ever been able to explain to me, if you don't believe in science then why are you a Nurse/healthcare professional? I realize scientific opinion can change, but vaccinations aren't one them. The flu vaccine alone has been used widespread for over 80 years. The smallpox vaccine has history back to 1000AD and over 200 years in western cultures. How can you legitimately practice effectively if you don't believe in science when it doesn't correlate with your predetermined opinions?. I guess this why we have to have so many policies and regulatory agencies to keep people in check that won't believe in science even it is to the detriment of their patients, family and public at large.
  9. by   elkpark
    Well, I see that it's once again time to post the Boston Globe article about how presenting actual facts often doesn't change people's minds. You're wasting your time, folks (as we do every year around this time, when the anti-vaxxers all rise up in their indignation and outrage about the flu shot).


    Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It's this: Facts don't necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger ...

    "The general idea is that it's absolutely threatening to admit you're wrong," says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon - known as "backfire" - is "a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance" ...

    Most of us like to believe that our opinions have been formed over time by careful, rational consideration of facts and ideas, and that the decisions based on those opinions, therefore, have the ring of soundness and intelligence. In reality, we often base our opinions on our beliefs, which can have an uneasy relationship with facts. And rather than facts driving beliefs, our beliefs can dictate the facts we chose to accept. They can cause us to twist facts so they fit better with our preconceived notions. Worst of all, they can lead us to uncritically accept bad information just because it reinforces our beliefs. This reinforcement makes us more confident we're right, and even less likely to listen to any new information.


    How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
  10. by   RunnerNurse09
    If your referring to me, i never said i was anti-vaccine. My children are up to date on all of their vaccines. I am required to receive a round of vaccines again for employment purposes in the future even though I show immunity for things such as MMR and that's fine. I routinely give patients their flu shots. I have never said to any of those patients "hey, would you like to know how I feel about the flu shot?" I love science and have always excelled in it. My husband has never gotten the flu shot by his own choice. If tomorrow he decided to get it, well good for him. I will be required to get it next year, and that's fine.
  11. by   klone
    Quote from elkpark
    Well, I see that it's once again time to post the Boston Globe article about how presenting actual facts often doesn't change people's minds. You're wasting your time, folks (as we do every year around this time, when the anti-vaxxers all rise up in their indignation and outrage about the flu shot).
    Oh, hush. I prefer to remain a bliss ninny, forever believing that logic and reason can prevail.
  12. by   wtbcrna
    I know it won't convince people, and as I already stated legislation requiring mandatory vaccination is the only thing that significantly improves public vaccination rates.

    What I hate is constantly having misinformation from antivaxxers all over the internet, and it's also sad that I have to defend nursing as a profession because someone finds comments like the ones on here from some nurses showing that they have no concept of science or evidence based practices.
  13. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    If your referring to me, i never said i was anti-vaccine. My children are up to date on all of their vaccines. I am required to receive a round of vaccines again for employment purposes in the future even though I show immunity for things such as MMR and that's fine. I routinely give patients their flu shots. I have never said to any of those patients "hey, would you like to know how I feel about the flu shot?" I love science and have always excelled in it. My husband has never gotten the flu shot by his own choice. If tomorrow he decided to get it, well good for him. I will be required to get it next year, and that's fine.
    If your children or you weren't required to get any vaccinations even though they were recommended would you still get them or pick and choose?

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